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Has Bowyer lost it?
Comments
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I don’t give a monkeys what nationality any new man is. If he’s the right man for the job he can be Martian for all I care. My guess is he will be British.cafcsinger said:Bringing in a Danish manager would go down like a bag of cold sick. No chance5 -
Where is he currently spending his evenings ? If I’m honest I can’t see it either but he’s available and not to ask of him the question only 100% guarantees he won’t be coming.Notts_Addick said:I must be in the minority in thinking getting rid of LB is short-termism at its absolute worst. He did brilliantly getting us up, all those who say he had a great squad completely disregard the fact that there's been much better squads across all 4 divisions who are expected to do great things and don't. Having a great squad doesn't guarantee promotion and any manager getting promoted in their first full season as a manager deserves recognition.
Last season we came within a whisker of staying up despite being an absolute basket case of a club off the field. The job he did under those circumstances was first rate, and keeping us up would have been nothing short of incredible. In fact getting us to the last game of the season with a shot at staying up was some achievement in itself.
Has this season been great? No. I've watched the games and I see the same things as everyone else we've been poor for a while now. I can understand those who are frustrated and we haven't been great to watch. Losses hurt no matter how they happen but I think there a little easier to accept when there's good football on display and there's been a lack of that in a lot of games this season.
Do I think LB deserves all the blame for that? No. I think recruitment has been hit and miss this season, however that was the hand we were dealt with the takeover issues and there were clearly some gambles, e.g Madison, that haven't paid off however we had to roll the dice and didn't have the backing we seemingly have now under TS. I also think we've had a terrible run of injuries, which have really derailed us. I also think there's been plenty of games we should have won and if we'd taken chances we'd probably be much higher up the table than we are.
Everyone has a view on the subject and there are clearly those who feel differently and feel LB should go, and that's the great part of football that everyone can see things differently. I don't think LB should be sacked and I think he should get a crack at next season, however I can understand the point of view of those who think he should go. However I do think some of the comments about LB are really unnecessary, the man is a legend in my eyes for what he's done and when the time comes for him to leave, whether it's today, the end of the season or 5 years time he deserves absolute respect from us for what he has done under really difficult circumstances at times.
His achievements and track record already show he's clearly a good manager and those saying he's inept or doesn't have a clue what he's doing I think are really off the mark, and some (not all) of the posts on here suggest there'll be some sort of celebratory feel if he goes which again I just find a little distasteful of someone who has achieved a lot for this club.
I do think we need a little perspective on where we were as a football club even a few months ago, we had been neglected at best for years and at worst asset stripped. Building us back to where we need to be is going to take substantial time and effort no matter how good TS intentions and how much money he is willing to throw at it, it won't all happen overnight. It's worth bearing in mind TS isn't the only owner in League One, or even League Two, who has ambition and the finances to match it and us having a great owner doesn't guarantee that we'll walk the league.
I love his ambition and love that we finally have someone who wants success for this club, but I also think we need to be realistic in terms of what we can achieve and how quickly. Do people genuinely think Eddie Howe is going to come to us like I've seen suggested and spend his Tuesday night's at Accrington and Plymouth?4 -
If Lee Bowyer is such a legend, why are we struggling in League One mid-table?0
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Desperate_Pete said:Notts_Addick said:I must be in the minority in thinking getting rid of LB is short-termism at its absolute worst. He did brilliantly getting us up, all those who say he had a great squad completely disregard the fact that there's been much better squads across all 4 divisions who are expected to do great things and don't. Having a great squad doesn't guarantee promotion and any manager getting promoted in their first full season as a manager deserves recognition.
Last season we came within a whisker of staying up despite being an absolute basket case of a club off the field. The job he did under those circumstances was first rate, and keeping us up would have been nothing short of incredible. In fact getting us to the last game of the season with a shot at staying up was some achievement in itself.
Has this season been great? No. I've watched the games and I see the same things as everyone else we've been poor for a while now. I can understand those who are frustrated and we haven't been great to watch. Losses hurt no matter how they happen but I think there a little easier to accept when there's good football on display and there's been a lack of that in a lot of games this season.
Do I think LB deserves all the blame for that? No. I think recruitment has been hit and miss this season, however that was the hand we were dealt with the takeover issues and there were clearly some gambles, e.g Madison, that haven't paid off however we had to roll the dice and didn't have the backing we seemingly have now under TS. I also think we've had a terrible run of injuries, which have really derailed us. I also think there's been plenty of games we should have won and if we'd taken chances we'd probably be much higher up the table than we are.
Everyone has a view on the subject and there are clearly those who feel differently and feel LB should go, and that's the great part of football that everyone can see things differently. I don't think LB should be sacked and I think he should get a crack at next season, however I can understand the point of view of those who think he should go. However I do think some of the comments about LB are really unnecessary, the man is a legend in my eyes for what he's done and when the time comes for him to leave, whether it's today, the end of the season or 5 years time he deserves absolute respect from us for what he has done under really difficult circumstances at times.
His achievements and track record already show he's clearly a good manager and those saying he's inept or doesn't have a clue what he's doing I think are really off the mark, and some (not all) of the posts on here suggest there'll be some sort of celebratory feel if he goes which again I just find a little distasteful of someone who has achieved a lot for this club.
I do think we need a little perspective on where we were as a football club even a few months ago, we had been neglected at best for years and at worst asset stripped. Building us back to where we need to be is going to take substantial time and effort no matter how good TS intentions and how much money he is willing to throw at it, it won't all happen overnight. It's worth bearing in mind TS isn't the only owner in League One, or even League Two, who has ambition and the finances to match it and us having a great owner doesn't guarantee that we'll walk the league.
I love his ambition and love that we finally have someone who wants success for this club, but I also think we need to be realistic in terms of what we can achieve and how quickly. Do people genuinely think Eddie Howe is going to come to us like I've seen suggested and spend his Tuesday night's at Accrington and Plymouth?Could not disagree with anything that you have written. Excellent analysis and puts many of the short sighted and intellectually challenged posters on this thread in their place.
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All this talk of bringing in consultants and giving him a leave and the returning. No, he should be sacked, end off. Stop making excuses for him.7
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Having slept on it, I’m still of the same opinion, Lee Bowyer has done his best but he’s not the man for the job. Feel sorry for him and Jacko and Andy Marshall, even Steve Gallen, because whoever we bring in is going to want their own team.Bowyer’s inexperience as a manager is starting to come through and that’s his problem. The last two years have been relatively easy for him because he’s been able to call on quality players, Cullen, Taylor, Beilik etc. Players that could dominate and control a game. He didn’t have to manage them. The quality we have in our team this year is crap and he’s not able to organise them, motivate or get them to gel. He doesn’t play a settled side and his tactical nous is non existent. We have no leaders. The Accrington Stanley match summed up for me what we are missing.When the time comes, I will wish Lee Bowyer well. The day out at Wembley will remain with me forever and a day.5
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“Intellectually challenged” - what a snobbish thing to say.Do one.23
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You see this not entirely in a dissimilar way to me. However the outcome isn't the same.Notts_Addick said:I must be in the minority in thinking getting rid of LB is short-termism at its absolute worst. He did brilliantly getting us up, all those who say he had a great squad completely disregard the fact that there's been much better squads across all 4 divisions who are expected to do great things and don't. Having a great squad doesn't guarantee promotion and any manager getting promoted in their first full season as a manager deserves recognition.
Last season we came within a whisker of staying up despite being an absolute basket case of a club off the field. The job he did under those circumstances was first rate, and keeping us up would have been nothing short of incredible. In fact getting us to the last game of the season with a shot at staying up was some achievement in itself.
Has this season been great? No. I've watched the games and I see the same things as everyone else we've been poor for a while now. I can understand those who are frustrated and we haven't been great to watch. Losses hurt no matter how they happen but I think there a little easier to accept when there's good football on display and there's been a lack of that in a lot of games this season.
Do I think LB deserves all the blame for that? No. I think recruitment has been hit and miss this season, however that was the hand we were dealt with the takeover issues and there were clearly some gambles, e.g Madison, that haven't paid off however we had to roll the dice and didn't have the backing we seemingly have now under TS. I also think we've had a terrible run of injuries, which have really derailed us. I also think there's been plenty of games we should have won and if we'd taken chances we'd probably be much higher up the table than we are.
Everyone has a view on the subject and there are clearly those who feel differently and feel LB should go, and that's the great part of football that everyone can see things differently. I don't think LB should be sacked and I think he should get a crack at next season, however I can understand the point of view of those who think he should go. However I do think some of the comments about LB are really unnecessary, the man is a legend in my eyes for what he's done and when the time comes for him to leave, whether it's today, the end of the season or 5 years time he deserves absolute respect from us for what he has done under really difficult circumstances at times.
His achievements and track record already show he's clearly a good manager and those saying he's inept or doesn't have a clue what he's doing I think are really off the mark, and some (not all) of the posts on here suggest there'll be some sort of celebratory feel if he goes which again I just find a little distasteful of someone who has achieved a lot for this club.
I do think we need a little perspective on where we were as a football club even a few months ago, we had been neglected at best for years and at worst asset stripped. Building us back to where we need to be is going to take substantial time and effort no matter how good TS intentions and how much money he is willing to throw at it, it won't all happen overnight. It's worth bearing in mind TS isn't the only owner in League One, or even League Two, who has ambition and the finances to match it and us having a great owner doesn't guarantee that we'll walk the league.
I love his ambition and love that we finally have someone who wants success for this club, but I also think we need to be realistic in terms of what we can achieve and how quickly. Do people genuinely think Eddie Howe is going to come to us like I've seen suggested and spend his Tuesday night's at Accrington and Plymouth?
I think Bowyer did very well in his first 18 months, but as soon as the external challenges started to show he has struggled. There has always been an excuse and it is never his fault we lose. I see recruitment as much a part of Bowyer's job as it is Gallen's.
He is not inept, he is not clueless. He has been burned by the past 12-14 months and is struggling to recover. I do not feel anyone should be celebrating his demise or threatening/slating him as a person.
He will still be held in high regard in terms of what he achieved with us, but would I hold him above Powell who achieved similar with a bit of investment in his first full season and without investment smashed his second season in the championship, and without investment again struggled in his final management season with us? certainly not.
He's been better than any of Dowie, Pardew, Parkinson, Riga, Peeters, Luzon, Fraeye, Slade & Robinson, but it is pretty clear that something needs to change.
I hope Sandgaard chooses to either back him or replace him. I wouldn't care where that replacement comes from so long as they get us back on track, if that were his decision.
I'd even support Bowyer remaining next season if it meant he changed back to the Bowyer of the end of 17/18 throughout 18/19 and the beginning of 19/20. It just seems as likely as I am to win the lottery tonight.6 -
The chances of a manager coming from Mars are a million to one.ShootersHillGuru said:
I don’t give a monkeys what nationality any new man is. If he’s the right man for the job he can be Martian for all I care. My guess is he will be British.cafcsinger said:Bringing in a Danish manager would go down like a bag of cold sick. No chance9 - Sponsored links:
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North Lower Neil said:
The chances of a manager coming from Mars are a million to one.ShootersHillGuru said:
I don’t give a monkeys what nationality any new man is. If he’s the right man for the job he can be Martian for all I care. My guess is he will be British.cafcsinger said:Bringing in a Danish manager would go down like a bag of cold sick. No chance
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Look at us oiks demanding heads on pikes eh, as opposed to the true connoisseurs of football, who've been following Bowyer's tactical progress over the last few months and determined we're building a formidable new style13
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Sorry I don’t understand...cafctom said:“Intellectually challenged” - what a snobbish thing to say.Do one.10 -
I like LB and love what he did for us in the first 18 months and the passion he has expressed for the club. But - in my book, you don't become recognised as a good manager until you have done it consistently over a period of time and arrested slides and re-built sides time and again - alex ferguson, alan curbishley or a warnock who has so many promotions under his belt and even Mourinhio - they have a formula that works. Dowie had a great 6 months at Palace but turned out to be crap - after you've bolloxed up in 3 successive jobs, that tends to be that. Bowyer is unproven in my book - he may go on to learn from his mistakes - possibly here, probably elsewhere or he may just drift off. Point is - there is a gamble if he is going to oversee a rebuild and the first 18 months isn't enough for me given the car crash that the last year has been - and i know all the mitigating circumstances. I hope TS puts him and us out of our misery and we appoint a proven operator. Chris Powell and Alan Curbishley would be the dream team for me - jacko can stay on as coach.2
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Sandgaard is talking with NASA right now. I suppose you think the landing this week was just coincidence?North Lower Neil said:
The chances of a manager coming from Mars are a million to one.ShootersHillGuru said:
I don’t give a monkeys what nationality any new man is. If he’s the right man for the job he can be Martian for all I care. My guess is he will be British.cafcsinger said:Bringing in a Danish manager would go down like a bag of cold sick. No chance8 -
I understand that a Mr A Lien is on our shortlist.....ShootersHillGuru said:
Sandgaard is talking with NASA right now. I suppose you think the landing this week was just coincidence?North Lower Neil said:
The chances of a manager coming from Mars are a million to one.ShootersHillGuru said:
I don’t give a monkeys what nationality any new man is. If he’s the right man for the job he can be Martian for all I care. My guess is he will be British.cafcsinger said:Bringing in a Danish manager would go down like a bag of cold sick. No chance7 -
Yeah. He’s my favourite Martian.Fanny Fanackapan said:
I understand that a Mr A Lien is on our shortlist.....ShootersHillGuru said:
Sandgaard is talking with NASA right now. I suppose you think the landing this week was just coincidence?North Lower Neil said:
The chances of a manager coming from Mars are a million to one.ShootersHillGuru said:
I don’t give a monkeys what nationality any new man is. If he’s the right man for the job he can be Martian for all I care. My guess is he will be British.cafcsinger said:Bringing in a Danish manager would go down like a bag of cold sick. No chance0 -
The downside is he'd want us to play in green.ShootersHillGuru said:
Yeah. He’s my favourite Martian.Fanny Fanackapan said:
I understand that a Mr A Lien is on our shortlist.....ShootersHillGuru said:
Sandgaard is talking with NASA right now. I suppose you think the landing this week was just coincidence?North Lower Neil said:
The chances of a manager coming from Mars are a million to one.ShootersHillGuru said:
I don’t give a monkeys what nationality any new man is. If he’s the right man for the job he can be Martian for all I care. My guess is he will be British.cafcsinger said:Bringing in a Danish manager would go down like a bag of cold sick. No chance7 -
Come on @Dazzler21 spill the beans. You’ve piqued my interest with that ‘extremely outlandish’ rumour that you mentioned in your excellent post at 12.38pm. Have I missed something?3
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I think Bowyer has lost it. Ironically, I think he’s actually been under the most pressure since the TS takeover and I think he’s crumbled under that pressure. Before the takeover Lee always had the excuse that off field shenanigans were hampering the team and considering the situation he was doing a great job. Also TS is a progressive, successful business man who’s already appointed a Technical Director with the brief of modernising the club set-up. Lee strikes me as a more traditional manager who may feel threatened by more modern thinking, especially with a Technical Director observing his training sessions. For the first time he’s under the spotlight, just like everyone is at the club. That combined with the handicap of the salary cap and potentially some TS meddling in player recruitment (would we really have bought Schwartz if our owner didn’t know his agent) he’s felt his card is marked or has just had enough of the CAFC rollercoaster and wants to get off.
to me he’s already a club legend but this situation is not just a blip and his body language says he’s beyond pulling this around. I think TS has rightfully shown him great respect but I can’t see TS keeping the faith when his ambitions for CAFC are so high.
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I think it was the silly claim that others are interfering with team selectionAddickUpNorth said:Come on @Dazzler21 spill the beans. You’ve piqued my interest with that ‘extremely outlandish’ rumour that you mentioned in your excellent post at 12.38pm. Have I missed something?0 -
Our fanbase is unreal at times.Desperate_Pete said:Notts_Addick said:I must be in the minority in thinking getting rid of LB is short-termism at its absolute worst. He did brilliantly getting us up, all those who say he had a great squad completely disregard the fact that there's been much better squads across all 4 divisions who are expected to do great things and don't. Having a great squad doesn't guarantee promotion and any manager getting promoted in their first full season as a manager deserves recognition.
Last season we came within a whisker of staying up despite being an absolute basket case of a club off the field. The job he did under those circumstances was first rate, and keeping us up would have been nothing short of incredible. In fact getting us to the last game of the season with a shot at staying up was some achievement in itself.
Has this season been great? No. I've watched the games and I see the same things as everyone else we've been poor for a while now. I can understand those who are frustrated and we haven't been great to watch. Losses hurt no matter how they happen but I think there a little easier to accept when there's good football on display and there's been a lack of that in a lot of games this season.
Do I think LB deserves all the blame for that? No. I think recruitment has been hit and miss this season, however that was the hand we were dealt with the takeover issues and there were clearly some gambles, e.g Madison, that haven't paid off however we had to roll the dice and didn't have the backing we seemingly have now under TS. I also think we've had a terrible run of injuries, which have really derailed us. I also think there's been plenty of games we should have won and if we'd taken chances we'd probably be much higher up the table than we are.
Everyone has a view on the subject and there are clearly those who feel differently and feel LB should go, and that's the great part of football that everyone can see things differently. I don't think LB should be sacked and I think he should get a crack at next season, however I can understand the point of view of those who think he should go. However I do think some of the comments about LB are really unnecessary, the man is a legend in my eyes for what he's done and when the time comes for him to leave, whether it's today, the end of the season or 5 years time he deserves absolute respect from us for what he has done under really difficult circumstances at times.
His achievements and track record already show he's clearly a good manager and those saying he's inept or doesn't have a clue what he's doing I think are really off the mark, and some (not all) of the posts on here suggest there'll be some sort of celebratory feel if he goes which again I just find a little distasteful of someone who has achieved a lot for this club.
I do think we need a little perspective on where we were as a football club even a few months ago, we had been neglected at best for years and at worst asset stripped. Building us back to where we need to be is going to take substantial time and effort no matter how good TS intentions and how much money he is willing to throw at it, it won't all happen overnight. It's worth bearing in mind TS isn't the only owner in League One, or even League Two, who has ambition and the finances to match it and us having a great owner doesn't guarantee that we'll walk the league.
I love his ambition and love that we finally have someone who wants success for this club, but I also think we need to be realistic in terms of what we can achieve and how quickly. Do people genuinely think Eddie Howe is going to come to us like I've seen suggested and spend his Tuesday night's at Accrington and Plymouth?Could not disagree with anything that you have written. Excellent analysis and puts many of the short sighted and intellectually challenged posters on this thread in their place.
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Leeds_Addick said:
I think it was the silly claim that others are interfering with team selectionAddickUpNorth said:Come on @Dazzler21 spill the beans. You’ve piqued my interest with that ‘extremely outlandish’ rumour that you mentioned in your excellent post at 12.38pm. Have I missed something?
Oh right, I was hoping there was something more salacious. As for the team selection thing I too think that it’s bollocks. Truly believe that LB is picking the team and that because he’s mentally shot it’s evidence of a drowning man clutching at a straw.2 -
I love Chris Powell so this pains me to say it. What is the difference been him and Bowyer? Both achieved the same thing. Powell should never have been sack even with the poor performances at the time.2
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In that case,EugenesAxe said:
Sorry I don’t understand...cafctom said:“Intellectually challenged” - what a snobbish thing to say.Do one.
Careful with that axe Eugene.
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esseffect said:I love Chris Powell so this pains me to say it. What is the difference been him and Bowyer? Both achieved the same thing. Powell should never have been sack even with the poor performances at the time.
Powell started off with a bad squad and got a good squad in the following season. Bowyer started with a good squad and now its a bad one and he is struggling.1 -
Powell won the league in his first season as manager, walked the league in fact and with zero investment that following summer got us 9th in the Championship.esseffect said:I love Chris Powell so this pains me to say it. What is the difference been him and Bowyer? Both achieved the same thing. Powell should never have been sack even with the poor performances at the time.
Bowyer got us in the play offs and won them, started well in the Championship, but ultimately even with a small amount of summer investment, couldn't keep us up.
Powell was sacked against the wishes of most because some Belgian prick rocked up thinking he knew better than to have a man that lived and breathed the club to be manager and intervened in transfers & squad selection and binned Powell despite RIga proving Powell could have saved our season himself.
Bowyer had started this season quite well, battling for several wins and it was an awesome first two months. He had a level of investment that had seemed to pay off (not at ideal levels due to caps and embargos) and remains in post despite us shaping up to be a midtable to lower midtable side this season. Sure he can turn it around, but I don't know if I believe he can. I think in order to get another season he has to be in or just outside the playoffs.
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I don’t know if Cawley’s tweets have been posted. A slight variation on the manager’s Valley Pass interview.
No doubt it has and I’ve missed it.But when you read this it’s making me lean towards giving Bow more time. I think he deserves it.5 -
JJ is in charge of set pieces and defence. For me he either stays with Bows or leaves with Bow.DOUCHER said:I like LB and love what he did for us in the first 18 months and the passion he has expressed for the club. But - in my book, you don't become recognised as a good manager until you have done it consistently over a period of time and arrested slides and re-built sides time and again - alex ferguson, alan curbishley or a warnock who has so many promotions under his belt and even Mourinhio - they have a formula that works. Dowie had a great 6 months at Palace but turned out to be crap - after you've bolloxed up in 3 successive jobs, that tends to be that. Bowyer is unproven in my book - he may go on to learn from his mistakes - possibly here, probably elsewhere or he may just drift off. Point is - there is a gamble if he is going to oversee a rebuild and the first 18 months isn't enough for me given the car crash that the last year has been - and i know all the mitigating circumstances. I hope TS puts him and us out of our misery and we appoint a proven operator. Chris Powell and Alan Curbishley would be the dream team for me - jacko can stay on as coach.5 -
One thing he hasn't lost is his job...yet.
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