Who was pulling the strings under Roland? Everyone seemed to claim it was Gallen when it was a good transfer and RD driven when it was a bad signing.
I think the last 18 months have shown that it wasn't just Gallen that made it work.
Talking of recruitment, if Bowyer goes, Gallen will likely follow
I don't get this. Bowyer, JJ and Gallen work together but they didn't join the club together. I think our recruitment hasn't been too bad. The squad looks decent, it just isn't having its potential maximised.
If Bowyer has burnt himself out, why should he take JJ and Gallen down with him? And when people say we should show Bowyer loyalty, why don't many of them apply the same criteria to JJ who for me has been even more loyal to Charlton than Bowyer.
Yeah that's true. I don't think the recruitment has been that bad. I guess I'm just assuming as they've built up such a close working relationship that they'd both leave, but perhaps not
I must be in the minority in thinking getting rid of LB is short-termism at its absolute worst. He did brilliantly getting us up, all those who say he had a great squad completely disregard the fact that there's been much better squads across all 4 divisions who are expected to do great things and don't. Having a great squad doesn't guarantee promotion and any manager getting promoted in their first full season as a manager deserves recognition.
Could not disagree with anything that you have written.
Excellent analysis and puts many of the short sighted and intellectually
challenged posters on this thread in their place.
Why would you even say that? Completely unnecessary.
3rd Minute - Stockley Header saved onto the bar. 9th Minute - Stockley Goal from a Shinnie Corner. 18th Minute - Shinnie hit the bar from a free-kick.
So we could of been 3-0 up within 20 minutes without Burton having a sniff.
Not really, because if we’d scored in the 3rd minute we wouldn’t have scored the goal from the corner in the ninth minute. We might have gone on to score again, or we might not. We’ll never know.
Woah are you talking about causality and how the fabric of time is affected, perhaps Lee could cover some of this in his team talks; like “in order to win we need to prevent the other side from scoring” start with the basics...
Who was pulling the strings under Roland? Everyone seemed to claim it was Gallen when it was a good transfer and RD driven when it was a bad signing.
I think the last 18 months have shown that it wasn't just Gallen that made it work.
Talking of recruitment, if Bowyer goes, Gallen will likely follow
I don't get this. Bowyer, JJ and Gallen work together but they didn't join the club together. I think our recruitment hasn't been too bad. The squad looks decent, it just isn't having its potential maximised.
If Bowyer has burnt himself out, why should he take JJ and Gallen down with him? And when people say we should show Bowyer loyalty, why don't many of them apply the same criteria to JJ who for me has been even more loyal to Charlton than Bowyer.
It’s not a case of Bowyer taking JJ and or Gallen down with him. When a new man comes in he’ll quite rightly want people he knows and trusts. Both might remain but I certainly think if Bowyer leaves then JJ at least will also depart.
If I’m honest I think all this talk of Bowyer having a break is nonsense. Certainly he might need one but if he’s around in the summer then he’ll be front and centre in a massive squad rebuild. He’ll be dead lucky to get a couple of weeks. That’s football I’m afraid.
Lee definitely won't step back. He will probably expect the fans to still be on his side based on our history. He was a God only 6 months ago. He is also too stubborn to quit I would say in nature & would want his payout anyway which I would say deservedly so.
This will be up to Thomas but I think afka spoke a lot of sense. We talk like it's an easy job but he would have to part way with a large sum of money
Indeed, what always springs to my mind after watching abject dross week after week and month after month is that our manager definitely deserves to be on 400k a year for his exceptional work.
I must be in the minority in thinking getting rid of LB is short-termism at its absolute worst. He did brilliantly getting us up, all those who say he had a great squad completely disregard the fact that there's been much better squads across all 4 divisions who are expected to do great things and don't. Having a great squad doesn't guarantee promotion and any manager getting promoted in their first full season as a manager deserves recognition.
Could not disagree with anything that you have written.
Excellent analysis and puts many of the short sighted and intellectually
challenged posters on this thread in their place.
Why would you even say that? Completely unnecessary.
I like LB and love what he did for us in the first 18 months and the passion he has expressed for the club. But - in my book, you don't become recognised as a good manager until you have done it consistently over a period of time and arrested slides and re-built sides time and again - alex ferguson, alan curbishley or a warnock who has so many promotions under his belt and even Mourinhio - they have a formula that works. Dowie had a great 6 months at Palace but turned out to be crap - after you've bolloxed up in 3 successive jobs, that tends to be that. Bowyer is unproven in my book - he may go on to learn from his mistakes - possibly here, probably elsewhere or he may just drift off. Point is - there is a gamble if he is going to oversee a rebuild and the first 18 months isn't enough for me given the car crash that the last year has been - and i know all the mitigating circumstances. I hope TS puts him and us out of our misery and we appoint a proven operator. Chris Powell and Alan Curbishley would be the dream team for me - jacko can stay on as coach.
JJ is in charge of set pieces and defence. For me he either stays with Bows or leaves with Bow.
So there is a throw in high up the pitch and an opposition player strolls in to receive the ball near the touch line. JJ instructs players not to go with the man as the unchallenged cross will probably be awful.
What was he instructing them do to when we were successful?
I would have thought that no one should be having to tell players like Gunter and Mathews to do the basics right, but I have lost count of how many goals that have come from that side and there cannot be a team in the division that has not noticed our vulnerability to the ball from that area to the far post. This is not a recent phenomenon either - remember Smith for Millwall? The players need to have a good look at themselves, but the management team should have addressed it at some point by now. I really can’t see how you can totally absolve the one responsible for that particular area. Bowyer and JJ are equally culpable for performance IMO. Reflected glory, reflected blame.
I always feel sad when a manager’s time is up and I am not
sure whether this is the case or not at the moment . I have written off this
season which disappoints me .
I remember walking away from Pardew and Parky’s last matches
knowing their time was up . I didn’t get that feeling last night . No crowd may
give Bowyer a reprieve . Certainly if we lose the Blackpool game the anti
Bowyer feeling might gain further momentum .
I do believe as a concept managers have a shelf life . I
remember that Jack Charlton used to say it was three or four years although he
later disproved this theory with the massives and Ireland .
Many Charlton managers start well . I will give examples from
the 60’sand 70’s of how some of our more
popular managers fell from grace sometimes very quickly . Eddie Firmani went
from the popular flamboyant boss of the 1968/69 season who nearly got us into the
top flight to being on the verge of relegation and sacked less than 12 months
later . Theo Foley kept us up that year but couldn’t prevent relegation two
years later . By 1974 he oversaw a similar situation to Bowyer now . His side
underachieved in the third tier . His successor Andy Nelson achieved promotion
in 1974/75 with much the same team . They developed into an outfit which competed
well in the second tier but five years later he called the fans ‘ village
idiots’ and left as we were heading for another third tier relegation in 1980 .
All of those managers gave great memories but were probably sacked
at the right time for the club as they had lost something .
I like Bowyer I hope he turns it around , but a further
series of defeats could make his position untenable and change my viewpoint .
As seen above it could turn things around for us .
I think if you look back at past League One tables, more often than not 74 points will get you in the play offs. We currently have 44 points and if we win 10 games from our last 16, that would do it.
Of course that is impossible as things stand now, but if you change things, I don't think it is. It could be 71 points, we don't know. It just doesn't make sense why we are not trying to change things to at least have a go at this. Sandgaard has been quoted to rate the squad. It is baffling for me.
Yes, he is going to have to pay Bowyer a lot of money, but he is going to have to do that anyway. If he went for a caretaker like Euell or JJ, it won't cost him much more.
I think if you look back at past League One tables, more often than not 74 points will get you in the play offs. We currently have 44 points and if we win 10 games from our last 16, that would do it.
Of course that is impossible as things stand now, but if you change things, I don't think it is. It could be 71 points, we don't know. It just doesn't make sense why we are not trying to change things to at least have a go at this. Sandgaard has been quoted to rate the squad. It is baffling for me.
Yes, he is going to have to pay Bowyer a lot of money, but he is going to have to do that anyway. If he went for a caretaker like Euell or JJ, it won't cost him much more.
Bringing in a Danish manager would go down like a bag of cold sick. No chance
I don’t give a monkeys what nationality any new man is. If he’s the right man for the job he can be Martian for all I care. My guess is he will be British.
The chances of a manager coming from Mars are a million to one.
Sandgaard is talking with NASA right now. I suppose you think the landing this week was just coincidence?
I understand that a Mr A Lien is on our shortlist.....
Yeah. He’s my favourite Martian.
The downside is he'd want us to play in green.
..and none of the players would pass the CL height test.
Lee definitely won't step back. He will probably expect the fans to still be on his side based on our history. He was a God only 6 months ago. He is also too stubborn to quit I would say in nature & would want his payout anyway which I would say deservedly so.
This will be up to Thomas but I think afka spoke a lot of sense. We talk like it's an easy job but he would have to part way with a large sum of money
Indeed, what always springs to my mind after watching abject dross week after week and month after month is that our manager definitely deserves to be on 400k a year for his exceptional work.
Maybe more 'rightly' so but let's not have short memories and change history (like we seem to be doing about our promotion campaign). When he signed an extension everyone was buzzing. There was not one Charlton fan who gruntled at the length of the contract and not one fan would have predicted how bad the football has been.
Why should he give up a payout? No one on this forum would do so, it's not like Bowyer is rolling in millions and millions. It's a nonsense stance and unrealistic
Just a thought, given that TS seems a man possessed of genuine integrity, maybe he feels that a sacking requires more than a zoom, a text or an email? Difficult to do given current COIVD travel arrangements.
I’ve wondered all day if the radio silence from the club might be because a severance package is being negotiated behind the scenes. A pay off and mutual consent statement. Just a thought.
I’ve wondered all day if the radio silence from the club might be because a severance package is being negotiated behind the scenes. A pay off and mutual consent statement. Just a thought.
I don’t understand the whole “let him have a Summer window” argument.
He had a Summer window, which even though was hindered by the embargo for a large part, we still brought in some very impressive names and retained the like of Williams, Chuks and Doughty.
He then had a January window and decided to not bring in a defender even though we were leaking goals every single game. His marquee signing was someone he couldn’t motivate and ended up shipping out to Bolton after about 2 months.
Even if he does get another Summer window, what makes you think he’s going to change his ways of benching the best players, the constant tinkering, playing players out of position etc?
This is not the Lee Bowyer of two years ago, and only he knows what has changed. Either way, we are taking a major gamble if we carry him into next season.
Who was pulling the strings under Roland? Everyone seemed to claim it was Gallen when it was a good transfer and RD driven when it was a bad signing.
I think the last 18 months have shown that it wasn't just Gallen that made it work.
When was we ever under a transfer embargo with Roland? When did we have owner and friends of owner finding illegal ways to take money from the club with Roland? A lot of last year was a complete write off in terms of recruitment and that had nothing to do with how good Gallen is at his job.
I just can not get on board with this take that LB has just
lost it. Reality is he and Gallen had us overperforming in the past few
seasons, getting us up and almost keeping us up in championship to the point
were unlucky to go down, we were only in the bottom three for about 3 weeks all
season last year.
To start this year the ownership situation was untenable,
transfer embargo, contracts of key players were allowed to lapse and in the
midst of it you had the salary cap to handcuff him and Gallen. To sack him off
the back of raising expectations due to achieving to me is wrong.
So I am firmly in the camp of give Bowyer time, and by that
I mean a stable off season with stable ownership, which ever league we are in
next season, I am not saying he’s beyond criticism or he’s got things right tactically
at time, its been grim to watch recently, but the circumstances he’s worked
under have not been normal to judge him on this year, and I think we just have
to face the fact we don’t have enough talent particularly in the midfield due
to having to rebuild under those circumstances, but I think it’d be a mistake
to say that changing Bowyer will fix that and suddenly send us on a run to
promotion.
Instead we just lose a promising manager with a connection
to the club, particularly when I can’t see who we’d bring in who would be a
notable upgrade.
Don’t let your highs get you too high and lows get you too
low.
Comments
The players need to have a good look at themselves, but the management team should have addressed it at some point by now. I really can’t see how you can totally absolve the one responsible for that particular area. Bowyer and JJ are equally culpable for performance IMO. Reflected glory, reflected blame.
I always feel sad when a manager’s time is up and I am not sure whether this is the case or not at the moment . I have written off this season which disappoints me .
I remember walking away from Pardew and Parky’s last matches knowing their time was up . I didn’t get that feeling last night . No crowd may give Bowyer a reprieve . Certainly if we lose the Blackpool game the anti Bowyer feeling might gain further momentum .
I do believe as a concept managers have a shelf life . I remember that Jack Charlton used to say it was three or four years although he later disproved this theory with the massives and Ireland .
Many Charlton managers start well . I will give examples from the 60’sand 70’s of how some of our more popular managers fell from grace sometimes very quickly . Eddie Firmani went from the popular flamboyant boss of the 1968/69 season who nearly got us into the top flight to being on the verge of relegation and sacked less than 12 months later . Theo Foley kept us up that year but couldn’t prevent relegation two years later . By 1974 he oversaw a similar situation to Bowyer now . His side underachieved in the third tier . His successor Andy Nelson achieved promotion in 1974/75 with much the same team . They developed into an outfit which competed well in the second tier but five years later he called the fans ‘ village idiots’ and left as we were heading for another third tier relegation in 1980 .
All of those managers gave great memories but were probably sacked at the right time for the club as they had lost something .
I like Bowyer I hope he turns it around , but a further series of defeats could make his position untenable and change my viewpoint . As seen above it could turn things around for us .
Of course that is impossible as things stand now, but if you change things, I don't think it is. It could be 71 points, we don't know. It just doesn't make sense why we are not trying to change things to at least have a go at this. Sandgaard has been quoted to rate the squad. It is baffling for me.
Yes, he is going to have to pay Bowyer a lot of money, but he is going to have to do that anyway. If he went for a caretaker like Euell or JJ, it won't cost him much more.
Why should he give up a payout? No one on this forum would do so, it's not like Bowyer is rolling in millions and millions. It's a nonsense stance and unrealistic
Difficult to do given current COIVD travel arrangements.
That really would be unique.
TS "is Lee getting the best out of the players you signed?"
One can only imagine the answer
He had a Summer window, which even though was hindered by the embargo for a large part, we still brought in some very impressive names and retained the like of Williams, Chuks and Doughty.
Even if he does get another Summer window, what makes you think he’s going to change his ways of benching the best players, the constant tinkering, playing players out of position etc?
This is not the Lee Bowyer of two years ago, and only he knows what has changed. Either way, we are taking a major gamble if we carry him into next season.
Well tell me what else has changed?
Are they just unlucky now?
Despite having bought an annual pass I'm not watching on Saturday. I'll have far more fun cutting the grass.
I just can not get on board with this take that LB has just lost it. Reality is he and Gallen had us overperforming in the past few seasons, getting us up and almost keeping us up in championship to the point were unlucky to go down, we were only in the bottom three for about 3 weeks all season last year.
To start this year the ownership situation was untenable, transfer embargo, contracts of key players were allowed to lapse and in the midst of it you had the salary cap to handcuff him and Gallen. To sack him off the back of raising expectations due to achieving to me is wrong.
So I am firmly in the camp of give Bowyer time, and by that I mean a stable off season with stable ownership, which ever league we are in next season, I am not saying he’s beyond criticism or he’s got things right tactically at time, its been grim to watch recently, but the circumstances he’s worked under have not been normal to judge him on this year, and I think we just have to face the fact we don’t have enough talent particularly in the midfield due to having to rebuild under those circumstances, but I think it’d be a mistake to say that changing Bowyer will fix that and suddenly send us on a run to promotion.
Instead we just lose a promising manager with a connection to the club, particularly when I can’t see who we’d bring in who would be a notable upgrade.
Don’t let your highs get you too high and lows get you too low.