I love Chris Powell so this pains me to say it. What is the difference been him and Bowyer? Both achieved the same thing. Powell should never have been sack even with the poor performances at the time.
Powell won the league in his first season as manager, walked the league in fact and with zero investment that following summer got us 9th in the Championship. Bowyer got us in the play offs and won them, started well in the Championship, but ultimately even with a small amount of summer investment, couldn't keep us up.
Powell was sacked against the wishes of most because some Belgian prick rocked up thinking he knew better than to have a man that lived and breathed the club to be manager and intervened in transfers & squad selection and binned Powell despite RIga proving Powell could have saved our season himself.
Bowyer had started this season quite well, battling for several wins and it was an awesome first two months. He had a level of investment that had seemed to pay off (not at ideal levels due to caps and embargos) and remains in post despite us shaping up to be a midtable to lower midtable side this season. Sure he can turn it around, but I don't know if I believe he can. I think in order to get another season he has to be in or just outside the playoffs.
I like LB and love what he did for us in the first 18 months and the passion he has expressed for the club. But - in my book, you don't become recognised as a good manager until you have done it consistently over a period of time and arrested slides and re-built sides time and again - alex ferguson, alan curbishley or a warnock who has so many promotions under his belt and even Mourinhio - they have a formula that works. Dowie had a great 6 months at Palace but turned out to be crap - after you've bolloxed up in 3 successive jobs, that tends to be that. Bowyer is unproven in my book - he may go on to learn from his mistakes - possibly here, probably elsewhere or he may just drift off. Point is - there is a gamble if he is going to oversee a rebuild and the first 18 months isn't enough for me given the car crash that the last year has been - and i know all the mitigating circumstances. I hope TS puts him and us out of our misery and we appoint a proven operator. Chris Powell and Alan Curbishley would be the dream team for me - jacko can stay on as coach.
JJ is in charge of set pieces and defence. For me he either stays with Bows or leaves with Bow.
I love Chris Powell so this pains me to say it. What is the difference been him and Bowyer? Both achieved the same thing. Powell should never have been sack even with the poor performances at the time.
Powell won the league in his first season as manager, walked the league in fact and with zero investment that following summer got us 9th in the Championship. Bowyer got us in the play offs and won them, started well in the Championship, but ultimately even with a small amount of summer investment, couldn't keep us up.
Powell was sacked against the wishes of most because some Belgian prick rocked up thinking he knew better than to have a man that lived and breathed the club to be manager and intervened in transfers & squad selection and binned Powell despite RIga proving Powell could have saved our season himself.
Bowyer had started this season quite well, battling for several wins and it was an awesome first two months. He had a level of investment that had seemed to pay off (not at ideal levels due to caps and embargos) and remains in post despite us shaping up to be a midtable to lower midtable side this season. Sure he can turn it around, but I don't know if I believe he can. I think in order to get another season he has to be in or just outside the playoffs.
Why didn't you mention that Powell signed 19 players in his first summer transfer window?
Bringing in a Danish manager would go down like a bag of cold sick. No chance
I don’t give a monkeys what nationality any new man is. If he’s the right man for the job he can be Martian for all I care. My guess is he will be British.
The chances of a manager coming from Mars are a million to one.
Sandgaard is talking with NASA right now. I suppose you think the landing this week was just coincidence?
I understand that a Mr A Lien is on our shortlist.....
I love Chris Powell so this pains me to say it. What is the difference been him and Bowyer? Both achieved the same thing. Powell should never have been sack even with the poor performances at the time.
Powell won the league in his first season as manager, walked the league in fact and with zero investment that following summer got us 9th in the Championship. Bowyer got us in the play offs and won them, started well in the Championship, but ultimately even with a small amount of summer investment, couldn't keep us up.
Powell was sacked against the wishes of most because some Belgian prick rocked up thinking he knew better than to have a man that lived and breathed the club to be manager and intervened in transfers & squad selection and binned Powell despite RIga proving Powell could have saved our season himself.
Bowyer had started this season quite well, battling for several wins and it was an awesome first two months. He had a level of investment that had seemed to pay off (not at ideal levels due to caps and embargos) and remains in post despite us shaping up to be a midtable to lower midtable side this season. Sure he can turn it around, but I don't know if I believe he can. I think in order to get another season he has to be in or just outside the playoffs.
Why didn't you mention that Powell signed 19 players in his first summer transfer window?
Apologies I chopped and changed the post before commenting. Originally it said "Powell won the league in his first season as manager after some investment", hence then commenting the zero investment bit about Powell's second season.
How many did Bowyer add/retain from Robinson's squad? He certainly picked up a better squad than Powell did, that required fewer changes as we still had some quality in the side. Powell inherited a very poor side.
My point of view, I like Bowyer, I like his passion and I loved the immediate impact he had taking over for Robinson. I loved the 18/19 season, Wembley and the start of 19/20.
Since our promotion, we hit the ground running in the Championship and after a good start we picked up a couple of injuries and struggled. Bowyer became increasingly defensive and began to slate players that were previously deemed 'Projects'. It started with Bonne.
Bowyer has never truly taken the blame for any defeat leading to relegation. I am not holding him accountable for relegation, but surely he must at some point accept his tactics, formation or subs could have been wrong on the way to relegation?
Some of Bowyer's post match comments last season evidenced this:
"I'd like to think (this defeat) gives (my players) a kick up the backside. It should do, if they've got any pride that will hurt. And I'm sure it does because it hurts me. "Believe it or not I'm already looking forward to next weekend because the group of players I've got are honest. "That will be hurting them today. I'm looking forward to the reaction I get."
"Not good enough from start to finish. They were better than us. "Too many players weren't at it today. Too many nowhere near as well as they can play. "We have a squad that have to be at their best to compete in this division."
"It was a disappointing day. Blackburn did a good professional performance, a job on us. "We started well and were the better side for the first 10, 15 minutes, but then Blackburn got their first goal and after that they were the better side and deserved their three points. "The Championship is relentless and everyone has to earn their three points. Did my players work hard? Of course they did."
"I'm disappointed, frustrated and angry. My players gave absolutely everything and they didn't deserve not to come away with anything. "It wasn't a foul for their goal. One hundred percent, it wasn't a foul. I spoke to the ref and he said, 'It's because your player's sandwiched him'. A six foot seven striker has got sandwiched. "I'm sure it's still a contact sport and there was minimal contact. He gave a foul and it was never a foul. It's becoming a non-contact sport now. That's the way it's going, anyway. "It's wrong because we deserved to come away with a point."
"I'm frustrated and disappointed again. We can't keep gifting teams goals. "We are not good enough to give teams one-goal leads. "We had three clear-cut chances. We have got to take at least one of them. "The message to supporters is this - just stick together. We have got nine games to go and we have to keep fighting together."
"I'm proud of the players tonight, there's not many times you'll hear me say that when we lose a game. "But tonight you're playing against a top, top Brentford side who have been hammering teams left, right and centre, before the lockdown and after the lockdown, they're the in-form team in our division and we've just given them a right scare. "On another day we might have come away with something, but we've just got to keep showing that fight and I'm sure we'll be OK. "
"The officials have cost us the game today, it's plain and simple. Chuks Aneke, his goal is a goal. And I said to the fourth official, 'the linesman can't just guess'. "You have to be 100 per cent right on these decisions, these are big moments, there are careers on the line. "If their penalty was a penalty then so was ours, because Jake got dragged to the floor, and it's a penalty. "Something has to be done, because that wasn't up to scratch, all of them, the ref and the two linesmen."
"If we won tonight, for me 49 [points] is safe. Looking at who others have got to play that would have put us on 49 with a better goal difference. "We should have won comfortably. We hit the post, we missed chances - clear-cut chances. Once you go 2-0 up it's done, the game is finished. We had so many chances for that to happen. But that is why we are in this situation. We have missed too many chances. "To concede the way we did hurts a lot. Since coming back from this lockdown the amount of pressure and chances we have created we should be well out of sight. There is no way we should be competing to stay in this league. "We created chances to win two games tonight. Unfortunately, you don't take your chances, you don't win games. You don't win games, you won't stay in this division. Plain and simple."
"It could be the difference between us staying up and not staying up. It can't keep happening. "I will ring Alan Wiley (referee director at PGMOL) and I will tell him again, like I did after the Reading game, and I know what he will do. "On Monday he will again come back to me and apologise again like he did last week. "I know that will happen, but it does not make anything easier for us. We are talking about massive decisions."
I'm not happy. I've said to the players it's not about tonight's game, "Since coming back from lockdown we've been the better side in most of the games and that's what cost us. We should have been safe before we came here tonight. "There are only so many things you can do, and you can cut corners for so long and even then we still fought til the last day. "We should have still been safe with the players we've got, but it didn't happen."
So from February last season to our relegation, not once was a loss Bowyer's fault.
The wins he was complimentary about his players, but the losses he slates them. The only game he didn't was Brentford.
This season hasn't been much different. I suppose last night was the first time I can recall Bowyer putting his hands up and saying the defeat was on him, though even then it felt like it was through gritted teeth.
I said he'd have another ten games for me to form an opinion on how he is doing with his squad after the transfer window, we're only four games later and I do not want to stay quiet until the 10 games are up. 1 win, 1 draw and 2 losses. After the first of those fixtures, I was hopeful that we'd been wrong as we looked really good, we closed the opposition down quickly and looked for the quick ball to the attacking players. I thought, despite a quiet second half, we looked easily the better side.
Since then we have looked consistently worse. We went from a 2-0 win to a lower table opponent, to a 3-2 loss against a typically mid table opponent, to a 1-1 draw against a lower table opponent and finally last night losing 2-1 to the team bottom of the league.
Now though it is obvious that the window hasn't changed a thing. The average PPG is a solitary point per game since January 1st, in that time we have played 12, won 3, drawn 3 and lost 6. Of that since the window closed we have played 5, but I won't count Portsmouth and maintained our 1PPG form.
Bowyer loves a 9 game block so here are his this season:
Block 1 - 19pts from 27 (2.11ppg) Block 2 - 13pts from 27 (1.44ppg) Block 3 - 11pts from 27 (1.22ppg) Block 4 - (Inc) 1pt from 6 (0.5ppg)
A very clear downward trend.
Bowyer's shown that he struggles to motivate a disorganised side since his fantastic first 18 months.
He has also shown his injury hangups from 19/20 have come with him into 20/21 with constant tinkering of the side to 'rotate' players.
This season since day 1 of the season, we have used too many defence variations, too many midfield variations and too many forward variations. We then say that the players look like strangers! It's not a surprise when players don't get a string of games together.
We have hired and sold/released players between September and January... That's ridiculous and concerns me almost as much as the disorganisation in the side.
On top of the above we have reports of one of our most senior players stating that 'Bowyer has f***ing lost it' and alleged that he doesn't discuss tactics in training. Even if only partially true that is not good, we also have another poster saying that a youth player has said that Bowyer treats the younger players like kids and are mistreated, another states that he has heard things along these lines and had been trying to ignore it as rumour.
The latest rumour isn't worth repeating as it is extremely outlandish.
I just want success for the club, like Sandgaard says he does, I don't even care if we never reach Sandgaard's crazy plan!
I want stability and progression. Unfortunately Bowyer's progression has hiccuped this season and it's tough to take. You have people that have backed Bowyer week in and out highlighting the same oddities in selection etc they Bowyer makes, too many continuing to blindly support him.
If Sandgaard is willing to write this season off whilst we have a chance of at least reaching play offs, I'll be disappointed, but understanding.
We can't afford to fail next season to meet Sandgaard's targets.
Sandgaard's targets are out there, but this whole thing it now creates that we cannot afford to fail next season really is not healthy. Despite all the money in the game, it's still a sport, only 3 teams get promoted and no one has a devine right to those spots. The manger is already under big pressure at the minute, whoever is in charge next season especially when the supporters are back in the ground will be under a lot more with what feels like a promotion or bust mantra.
This club had been pulled apart for well over a decade, it needs rebuilding, if we are still at this level at the end of next season it's not the end of the world providing TS is still happy funding us and progress is made both on and off the pitch, but we have to ensure expectations don't get out of all proportion.
Lee definitely won't step back. He will probably expect the fans to still be on his side based on our history. He was a God only 6 months ago. He is also too stubborn to quit I would say in nature & would want his payout anyway which I would say deservedly so.
This will be up to Thomas but I think afka spoke a lot of sense. We talk like it's an easy job but he would have to part way with a large sum of money
I think most on here are so frustrated that LB isn’t succeeding. We all want him to steer Charlton onto better things now things are sorted off the pitch. But it is increasingly evident that it’s not going to happen, the chinks in his armour are now well documented. Whether the nastier elements of his character that have been muted being expressed to players is something rumoured, or has more substance, I hope are not true, as that is not acceptable, although would explain a lot of issues surrounding especially the younger players.
And it’s the younger players that I worry about, those that showed such promise, now seem to be lost, Albie Morgan could be our own Josh Cullen and more, but has gone backwards. Not sure how long he will be here now. Other academy players, were on the fringe but now seem to have evaporated. I’m not sure what’s happened with Barker, but when we were desperate for a centre back, every possible option was tried bar him. Josh Davidson another. Yes we have players now, but they would have done a job at the time and would have gained valuable experience. I don’t know but was the departure of Alfie D purely down to money? But it’s not just the youngsters, Matthews was good for us last season, and we never stopped trying to get him through the summer, he now gets caught out on a regular basis. Madden, a pain, but why chase after him so blatantly, and then get him, but not give him time to assert himself. Yes he pulled out of a tackle but hey he is not that kind of player, as is Williams. Now we have only Millar who can run with the ball. Our midfield is pedestrian, and our strikers don5 get anytime to gel.
But when all said and done, the mistakes, tactics, constant tinkering, reshuffling players, no doubt another few changes for Saturday. Would be acceptable if we were seeing some progress, or and end game, but we are not, we are getting worse. And you can blame the pitch, the weather, the ref, the opposition, the way the sun shines or what ever you like, the inescapable truth is we have a good squad, who should be pushing if not in the top two, there or there about but we are not. It will be a sad sad day if LB goes, but I think it is inevitable now, the horse seems to have bolted.
My point of view, I like Bowyer, I like his passion and I loved the immediate impact he had taking over for Robinson. I loved the 18/19 season, Wembley and the start of 19/20.
Since our promotion, we hit the ground running in the Championship and after a good start we picked up a couple of injuries and struggled. Bowyer became increasingly defensive and began to slate players that were previously deemed 'Projects'. It started with Bonne.
Bowyer has never truly taken the blame for any defeat leading to relegation. I am not holding him accountable for relegation, but surely he must at some point accept his tactics, formation or subs could have been wrong on the way to relegation?
Some of Bowyer's post match comments last season evidenced this:
"I'd like to think (this defeat) gives (my players) a kick up the backside. It should do, if they've got any pride that will hurt. And I'm sure it does because it hurts me. "Believe it or not I'm already looking forward to next weekend because the group of players I've got are honest. "That will be hurting them today. I'm looking forward to the reaction I get."
"Not good enough from start to finish. They were better than us. "Too many players weren't at it today. Too many nowhere near as well as they can play. "We have a squad that have to be at their best to compete in this division."
"It was a disappointing day. Blackburn did a good professional performance, a job on us. "We started well and were the better side for the first 10, 15 minutes, but then Blackburn got their first goal and after that they were the better side and deserved their three points. "The Championship is relentless and everyone has to earn their three points. Did my players work hard? Of course they did."
"I'm disappointed, frustrated and angry. My players gave absolutely everything and they didn't deserve not to come away with anything. "It wasn't a foul for their goal. One hundred percent, it wasn't a foul. I spoke to the ref and he said, 'It's because your player's sandwiched him'. A six foot seven striker has got sandwiched. "I'm sure it's still a contact sport and there was minimal contact. He gave a foul and it was never a foul. It's becoming a non-contact sport now. That's the way it's going, anyway. "It's wrong because we deserved to come away with a point."
"I'm frustrated and disappointed again. We can't keep gifting teams goals. "We are not good enough to give teams one-goal leads. "We had three clear-cut chances. We have got to take at least one of them. "The message to supporters is this - just stick together. We have got nine games to go and we have to keep fighting together."
"I'm proud of the players tonight, there's not many times you'll hear me say that when we lose a game. "But tonight you're playing against a top, top Brentford side who have been hammering teams left, right and centre, before the lockdown and after the lockdown, they're the in-form team in our division and we've just given them a right scare. "On another day we might have come away with something, but we've just got to keep showing that fight and I'm sure we'll be OK. "
"The officials have cost us the game today, it's plain and simple. Chuks Aneke, his goal is a goal. And I said to the fourth official, 'the linesman can't just guess'. "You have to be 100 per cent right on these decisions, these are big moments, there are careers on the line. "If their penalty was a penalty then so was ours, because Jake got dragged to the floor, and it's a penalty. "Something has to be done, because that wasn't up to scratch, all of them, the ref and the two linesmen."
"If we won tonight, for me 49 [points] is safe. Looking at who others have got to play that would have put us on 49 with a better goal difference. "We should have won comfortably. We hit the post, we missed chances - clear-cut chances. Once you go 2-0 up it's done, the game is finished. We had so many chances for that to happen. But that is why we are in this situation. We have missed too many chances. "To concede the way we did hurts a lot. Since coming back from this lockdown the amount of pressure and chances we have created we should be well out of sight. There is no way we should be competing to stay in this league. "We created chances to win two games tonight. Unfortunately, you don't take your chances, you don't win games. You don't win games, you won't stay in this division. Plain and simple."
"It could be the difference between us staying up and not staying up. It can't keep happening. "I will ring Alan Wiley (referee director at PGMOL) and I will tell him again, like I did after the Reading game, and I know what he will do. "On Monday he will again come back to me and apologise again like he did last week. "I know that will happen, but it does not make anything easier for us. We are talking about massive decisions."
I'm not happy. I've said to the players it's not about tonight's game, "Since coming back from lockdown we've been the better side in most of the games and that's what cost us. We should have been safe before we came here tonight. "There are only so many things you can do, and you can cut corners for so long and even then we still fought til the last day. "We should have still been safe with the players we've got, but it didn't happen."
So from February last season to our relegation, not once was a loss Bowyer's fault.
The wins he was complimentary about his players, but the losses he slates them. The only game he didn't was Brentford.
This season hasn't been much different. I suppose last night was the first time I can recall Bowyer putting his hands up and saying the defeat was on him, though even then it felt like it was through gritted teeth.
I said he'd have another ten games for me to form an opinion on how he is doing with his squad after the transfer window, we're only four games later and I do not want to stay quiet until the 10 games are up. 1 win, 1 draw and 2 losses. After the first of those fixtures, I was hopeful that we'd been wrong as we looked really good, we closed the opposition down quickly and looked for the quick ball to the attacking players. I thought, despite a quiet second half, we looked easily the better side.
Since then we have looked consistently worse. We went from a 2-0 win to a lower table opponent, to a 3-2 loss against a typically mid table opponent, to a 1-1 draw against a lower table opponent and finally last night losing 2-1 to the team bottom of the league.
Now though it is obvious that the window hasn't changed a thing. The average PPG is a solitary point per game since January 1st, in that time we have played 12, won 3, drawn 3 and lost 6. Of that since the window closed we have played 5, but I won't count Portsmouth and maintained our 1PPG form.
Bowyer loves a 9 game block so here are his this season:
Block 1 - 19pts from 27 (2.11ppg) Block 2 - 13pts from 27 (1.44ppg) Block 3 - 11pts from 27 (1.22ppg) Block 4 - (Inc) 1pt from 6 (0.5ppg)
A very clear downward trend.
Bowyer's shown that he struggles to motivate a disorganised side since his fantastic first 18 months.
He has also shown his injury hangups from 19/20 have come with him into 20/21 with constant tinkering of the side to 'rotate' players.
This season since day 1 of the season, we have used too many defence variations, too many midfield variations and too many forward variations. We then say that the players look like strangers! It's not a surprise when players don't get a string of games together.
We have hired and sold/released players between September and January... That's ridiculous and concerns me almost as much as the disorganisation in the side.
On top of the above we have reports of one of our most senior players stating that 'Bowyer has f***ing lost it' and alleged that he doesn't discuss tactics in training. Even if only partially true that is not good, we also have another poster saying that a youth player has said that Bowyer treats the younger players like kids and are mistreated, another states that he has heard things along these lines and had been trying to ignore it as rumour.
The latest rumour isn't worth repeating as it is extremely outlandish.
I just want success for the club, like Sandgaard says he does, I don't even care if we never reach Sandgaard's crazy plan!
I want stability and progression. Unfortunately Bowyer's progression has hiccuped this season and it's tough to take. You have people that have backed Bowyer week in and out highlighting the same oddities in selection etc they Bowyer makes, too many continuing to blindly support him.
If Sandgaard is willing to write this season off whilst we have a chance of at least reaching play offs, I'll be disappointed, but understanding.
We can't afford to fail next season to meet Sandgaard's targets.
Sandgaard's targets are out there, but this whole thing it now creates that we cannot afford to fail next season really is not healthy. Despite all the money in the game, it's still a sport, only 3 teams get promoted and no one has a devine right to those spots. The manger is already under big pressure at the minute, whoever is in charge next season especially when the supporters are back in the ground will be under a lot more with what feels like a promotion or bust mantra.
This club had been pulled apart for well over a decade, it needs rebuilding, if we are still at this level at the end if next season it's not the end of the world providing TS is still happy funding us and progress is made both on and off the pitch, but we have to ensure expectations don't get out of all proportion.
Nonetheless, promotion next season will be expected from whoever is in charge of team affairs. We know it’s not as simple as that but the attitude of we’ll give it a good go won’t do. We’ll soon see just how ambitious TS really is by what happens in the rebuilding. I expect it to be substantial and by league one standards impressive. If I’m wrong and it’s not then it will throw the Sandgaard ambitions into question.
Really feel for Lee. I do not think he should have been interviewed after the game yesterday, Curbs and Morts did an expert job of analysing another bad day at the office in a balanced way without having to put Lee and us through it.
Everything has conspired against Lee since ESI arrived. Rat was bad, but Lee knew where he stood and had a small budget to play with and a few pearls in the youth set up eg Aribo to get the most out of while he could.
Since the blows of losing Gallagher last January, going into lockdown only to find cowards not wishing to return, the mess of the embargo, ownership shenanigans and wage cap, it has all gone against him.
I think all of this has taken its toll on a true fighter. A proud and ambitious guy that knows only one way, work your socks off and good things will come.
The difference between now and our promotion season I think is that there were at least 4 players Cullen, Bielik, Aribo and Taylor that could play to Lee’s preferred get stuck in style, but had the skill to weave away from a player and spark and attack, create a chance for Taylor, Grant and even Vetokele that season (I think). Three of those four being midfielders gave us the spine from which to defend and attack. This season we simply do not have those options. Gilbey should have been one of those based on watching video highlights but has struggled to settle into what he has done elsewhere and while all of the others are workmanlike and can pass, they are less skilful and lack the guile of those mentioned.
As a result Lee’s preferred style has had to be turned over time and time again, trying to find a formula that might work without the right mix at his disposal. I think his failing has been his lack of will to use the defensive players to do just that and give a free licence to one or two of Maddison, Williams or Morgan, who are not renowned for the defensive side of the game, but can create chances. One tackle pull out and your subbed was extreme, unnecessary and a failure to assign roles/tactics fairly in my opinion. 4-2-3-1 was probably the right formation with what we he has had at his disposal this season, but has not been used much. Three CAMs until DJ and Millar arrived, but LAM CAM RAM could now work.
I think Lee’s time is up if Thomas wants promotion this season, but he may recognise that all things considered, Lee should be given the rest of the season to blood a few kids and then tear the sh*t out of this unbalanced and ageing squad, with the financial support to have a real go. It’s not what I necessarily want, but could live with it, as we have seen what Lee can do (promotion season) and H1 19/20 when he had a half decent and balanced squad to play with. That said his current state of mind may be irreversible if bitterness based on the past year has set in at all?
If he is going, I would expect it to take at least one working day to negotiate an exit settlement, comms etc. I would be hugely surprised if Thomas doesn’t have an interim plan, full plan A and B lined up when he needs it. He is a hugely successful businessman whose success would have relied on strategies and plans being in place.
If Lee does go, I would like to thank him hugely for sticking by us when others would have run a mile, for getting us promoted and giving us a fighting chance of Championship survival went dealt the sh*tt*est of hands by owners and some players alike & for all those great memories when he played for us, many of which still feel like yesterday. If he stays, he needs to dust himself down quickly and could do worse than get on a long Zoom call with Curbs and Morts who saw exactly where things were going right and wrong last night and Curbs will have opinions on the last few weeks which may help him step back and re-think/re-set. The strongest leaders never fear turning for advice in time of need...he really appears to need that right now.
We have been through so many crises over the years that another year in this poor quality league does not rival any of them and with our owner’s ambitions in mind, I am sure better times are around the corner (relatively speaking) whoever is at the helm.
Finally, if Lee does go and Thomas fancies a compatriot, a certain M Laudrup is currently out of work, has managed in England before and has not baulked at managing in non-Premium leagues. Record is pretty good, plays attacking style football and may just put a bit of spring into everyone’s step. Maybe time to wake up...
I like LB and love what he did for us in the first 18 months and the passion he has expressed for the club. But - in my book, you don't become recognised as a good manager until you have done it consistently over a period of time and arrested slides and re-built sides time and again - alex ferguson, alan curbishley or a warnock who has so many promotions under his belt and even Mourinhio - they have a formula that works. Dowie had a great 6 months at Palace but turned out to be crap - after you've bolloxed up in 3 successive jobs, that tends to be that. Bowyer is unproven in my book - he may go on to learn from his mistakes - possibly here, probably elsewhere or he may just drift off. Point is - there is a gamble if he is going to oversee a rebuild and the first 18 months isn't enough for me given the car crash that the last year has been - and i know all the mitigating circumstances. I hope TS puts him and us out of our misery and we appoint a proven operator. Chris Powell and Alan Curbishley would be the dream team for me - jacko can stay on as coach.
JJ is in charge of set pieces and defence. For me he either stays with Bows or leaves with Bow.
So there is a throw in high up the pitch and an opposition player strolls in to receive the ball near the touch line. JJ instructs players not to go with the man as the unchallenged cross will probably be awful.
What was he instructing them do to when we were successful?
Ultimately it is Sandgaard's club and if he isn't bothered about this season it is up to him. We are probably entering the zone where it doesn't matter anymore. I would say we might not be there yet, but others will say we have long gone past it. In that zone it doesn't matter who manages us.
I think most on here are so frustrated that LB isn’t succeeding. We all want him to steer Charlton onto better things now things are sorted off the pitch. But it is increasingly evident that it’s not going to happen, the chinks in his armour are now well documented. Whether the nastier elements of his character that have been muted being expressed to players is something rumoured, or has more substance, I hope are not true, as that is not acceptable, although would explain a lot of issues surrounding especially the younger players.
And it’s the younger players that I worry about, those that showed such promise, now seem to be lost, Albie Morgan could be our own Josh Cullen and more, but has gone backwards. Not sure how long he will be here now. Other academy players, were on the fringe but now seem to have evaporated. I’m not sure what’s happened with Barker, but when we were desperate for a centre back, every possible option was tried bar him. Josh Davidson another. Yes we have players now, but they would have done a job at the time and would have gained valuable experience. I don’t know but was the departure of Alfie D purely down to money? But it’s not just the youngsters, Matthews was good for us last season, and we never stopped trying to get him through the summer, he now gets caught out on a regular basis. Madden, a pain, but why chase after him so blatantly, and then get him, but not give him time to assert himself. Yes he pulled out of a tackle but hey he is not that kind of player, as is Williams. Now we have only Millar who can run with the ball. Our midfield is pedestrian, and our strikers don5 get anytime to gel.
But when all said and done, the mistakes, tactics, constant tinkering, reshuffling players, no doubt another few changes for Saturday. Would be acceptable if we were seeing some progress, or and end game, but we are not, we are getting worse. And you can blame the pitch, the weather, the ref, the opposition, the way the sun shines or what ever you like, the inescapable truth is we have a good squad, who should be pushing if not in the top two, there or there about but we are not. It will be a sad sad day if LB goes, but I think it is inevitable now, the horse seems to have bolted.
Agree. Some of those players, Doughty, Williams, Millar, Morgan, Maddison, top top players that we should have been building a team around. Truth is we never got the best out of any of them, they've either moved on or are not performing. Stockley is performing, but that's about it. Bowyer should have got far more out of what was available to him. Curbs was very picky about who he bought into the club. They had to fit into his jigsaw, and they also had to be the the right characters. Bowyer doesn't seem to have a jigsaw, there doesn't seem to be any strategic plan. He can't even seem to settle on a favoured formation.
Ultimately it is Sandgaard's club and if he isn't bothered about this season it is up to him. We are probably entering the zone where it doesn't matter anymore. I would say we might not be there yet, but others will say we have long gone past it. In that zone it doesn't matter who manages us.
If Bowyer is our manager Saturday then Sandgaard has definitely written the season off. Either way, I would still prefer a new manager to get at least 8-10 games to assess the squad before the summer window.
Ultimately it is Sandgaard's club and if he isn't bothered about this season it is up to him. We are probably entering the zone where it doesn't matter anymore. I would say we might not be there yet, but others will say we have long gone past it. In that zone it doesn't matter who manages us.
If Bowyer is our manager Saturday then Sandgaard has definitely written the season off. Either way, I would still prefer a new manager to get at least 8-10 games to assess the squad before the summer window.
Ideally that would be the case, but if they haven't settled on who that is going to be that would be problematic. One thing I was wondering, was maybe they do have somebody lined up for next season and they don't want to bring in a caretaker who might impress. Maybe overthinking there.
3rd Minute - Stockley Header saved onto the bar. 9th Minute - Stockley Goal from a Shinnie Corner. 18th Minute - Shinnie hit the bar from a free-kick.
So we could of been 3-0 up within 20 minutes without Burton having a sniff.
Not really, because if we’d scored in the 3rd minute we wouldn’t have scored the goal from the corner in the ninth minute. We might have gone on to score again, or we might not. We’ll never know.
Well I expect by the looks of things Bowyer won't be going anywhere, and if he has not gone now, I can't see there being any point in making the decision any later - so presumably he will be seeing the season out.
That is completely TS choice, and it's fine if he wants to give Bowyer a chance. However I won't be watching any more games with him in charge unless we really turn things around. I of course will follow results and still be active on here, but I honestly can't bare to watch any more minutes of us play. It's just not enjoyable for me in the slightest.
I'm finding it almost more depressing then Covid now - which is bloody sad.
Who was pulling the strings under Roland? Everyone seemed to claim it was Gallen when it was a good transfer and RD driven when it was a bad signing.
I think the last 18 months have shown that it wasn't just Gallen that made it work.
Talking of recruitment, if Bowyer goes, Gallen will likely follow
I don't get this. Bowyer, JJ and Gallen work together but they didn't join the club together. I think our recruitment hasn't been too bad. The squad looks decent, it just isn't having its potential maximised.
If Bowyer has burnt himself out, why should he take JJ and Gallen down with him? And when people say we should show Bowyer loyalty, why don't many of them apply the same criteria to JJ who for me has been even more loyal to Charlton than Bowyer.
Ultimately it is Sandgaard's club and if he isn't bothered about this season it is up to him. We are probably entering the zone where it doesn't matter anymore. I would say we might not be there yet, but others will say we have long gone past it. In that zone it doesn't matter who manages us.
If Bowyer is our manager Saturday then Sandgaard has definitely written the season off. Either way, I would still prefer a new manager to get at least 8-10 games to assess the squad before the summer window.
Ideally that would be the case, but if they haven't settled on who that is going to be that would be problematic. One thing I was wondering, was maybe they do have somebody lined up for next season and they don't want to bring in a caretaker who might impress. Maybe overthinking there.
It's possible but I'd still find that strange. If they gave the caretaker's role to someone like Euell and he impressed it's win win.
Personally, I'm still not in the Bowyer Out camp. I completely agree how dire the football has been recently, and the one thing that's changed is that when we were 2-1 down against Swindon a few weeks back, I said to my housemate we will equalise, however, last night I knew we had lost that game as soon as the second goal went in.
I think he needs a break in all honesty, he looks tired and fed up and it makes sense given the stress he would've been under last summer. I do agree with a lot of the points against Bowyer but I think I'd rather give him the summer and to build his own squad and judge him next season. There's no other managers out there on a free that particularly excite me and I'd rather not end up on a roundabout of dodgy managers again.
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Bowyer got us in the play offs and won them, started well in the Championship, but ultimately even with a small amount of summer investment, couldn't keep us up.
Powell was sacked against the wishes of most because some Belgian prick rocked up thinking he knew better than to have a man that lived and breathed the club to be manager and intervened in transfers & squad selection and binned Powell despite RIga proving Powell could have saved our season himself.
Bowyer had started this season quite well, battling for several wins and it was an awesome first two months. He had a level of investment that had seemed to pay off (not at ideal levels due to caps and embargos) and remains in post despite us shaping up to be a midtable to lower midtable side this season. Sure he can turn it around, but I don't know if I believe he can. I think in order to get another season he has to be in or just outside the playoffs.
No doubt it has and I’ve missed it.
Why didn't you mention that Powell signed 19 players in his first summer transfer window?
How many did Bowyer add/retain from Robinson's squad? He certainly picked up a better squad than Powell did, that required fewer changes as we still had some quality in the side. Powell inherited a very poor side.
This club had been pulled apart for well over a decade, it needs rebuilding, if we are still at this level at the end of next season it's not the end of the world providing TS is still happy funding us and progress is made both on and off the pitch, but we have to ensure expectations don't get out of all proportion.
This will be up to Thomas but I think afka spoke a lot of sense. We talk like it's an easy job but he would have to part way with a large sum of money
I don’t know but was the departure of Alfie D purely down to money?
But it’s not just the youngsters, Matthews was good for us last season, and we never stopped trying to get him through the summer, he now gets caught out on a regular basis. Madden, a pain, but why chase after him so blatantly, and then get him, but not give him time to assert himself. Yes he pulled out of a tackle but hey he is not that kind of player, as is Williams. Now we have only Millar who can run with the ball. Our midfield is pedestrian, and our strikers don5 get anytime to gel.
You'd be very naive to think that Roddy hasn't already been looking.
Since the blows of losing Gallagher last January, going into lockdown only to find cowards not wishing to return, the mess of the embargo, ownership shenanigans and wage cap, it has all gone against him.
The difference between now and our promotion season I think is that there were at least 4 players Cullen, Bielik, Aribo and Taylor that could play to Lee’s preferred get stuck in style, but had the skill to weave away from a player and spark and attack, create a chance for Taylor, Grant and even Vetokele that season (I think). Three of those four being midfielders gave us the spine from which to defend and attack. This season we simply do not have those options. Gilbey should have been one of those based on watching video highlights but has struggled to settle into what he has done elsewhere and while all of the others are workmanlike and can pass, they are less skilful and lack the guile of those mentioned.
As a result Lee’s preferred style has had to be turned over time and time again, trying to find a formula that might work without the right mix at his disposal. I think his failing has been his lack of will to use the defensive players to do just that and give a free licence to one or two of Maddison, Williams or Morgan, who are not renowned for the defensive side of the game, but can create chances. One tackle pull out and your subbed was extreme, unnecessary and a failure to assign roles/tactics fairly in my opinion. 4-2-3-1 was probably the right formation with what we he has had at his disposal this season, but has not been used much. Three CAMs until DJ and Millar arrived, but LAM CAM RAM could now work.
I think Lee’s time is up if Thomas wants promotion this season, but he may recognise that all things considered, Lee should be given the rest of the season to blood a few kids and then tear the sh*t out of this unbalanced and ageing squad, with the financial support to have a real go. It’s not what I necessarily want, but could live with it, as we have seen what Lee can do (promotion season) and H1 19/20 when he had a half decent and balanced squad to play with. That said his current state of mind may be irreversible if bitterness based on the past year has set in at all?
If he is going, I would expect it to take at least one working day to negotiate an exit settlement, comms etc. I would be hugely surprised if Thomas doesn’t have an interim plan, full plan A and B lined up when he needs it. He is a hugely successful businessman whose success would have relied on strategies and plans being in place.
We have been through so many crises over the years that another year in this poor quality league does not rival any of them and with our owner’s ambitions in mind, I am sure better times are around the corner (relatively speaking) whoever is at the helm.
What was he instructing them do to when we were successful?
I think that's a possibility
Truth is we never got the best out of any of them, they've either moved on or are not performing. Stockley is performing, but that's about it.
Bowyer should have got far more out of what was available to him.
Curbs was very picky about who he bought into the club. They had to fit into his jigsaw, and they also had to be the the right characters.
Bowyer doesn't seem to have a jigsaw, there doesn't seem to be any strategic plan. He can't even seem to settle on a favoured formation.
Who was pulling the strings under Roland? Everyone seemed to claim it was Gallen when it was a good transfer and RD driven when it was a bad signing.
I think the last 18 months have shown that it wasn't just Gallen that made it work.
That is completely TS choice, and it's fine if he wants to give Bowyer a chance. However I won't be watching any more games with him in charge unless we really turn things around. I of course will follow results and still be active on here, but I honestly can't bare to watch any more minutes of us play. It's just not enjoyable for me in the slightest.
I'm finding it almost more depressing then Covid now - which is bloody sad.
If Bowyer has burnt himself out, why should he take JJ and Gallen down with him? And when people say we should show Bowyer loyalty, why don't many of them apply the same criteria to JJ who for me has been even more loyal to Charlton than Bowyer.
I think he needs a break in all honesty, he looks tired and fed up and it makes sense given the stress he would've been under last summer. I do agree with a lot of the points against Bowyer but I think I'd rather give him the summer and to build his own squad and judge him next season. There's no other managers out there on a free that particularly excite me and I'd rather not end up on a roundabout of dodgy managers again.