Probably going to get slated for this and understand completely if people's finances are tight and have to pick and choose games a bit more but is not watching Charlton purely when they're on a bad run a bit fairweather?
No, why would it be? The emotions I get watching Charlton play are completely different to most things I experience in my life - I have no interest in watching any other football, but the level of joy and feeling of contentment I get from watching Charlton win a game is only matched from spending time with my son.
And at the moment, due to the performances on the pitch, I would rather spend those hours with my family.
Would you call someone who enjoyed a video game franchise, say FIFA, and played them for every year, a fairweather fan if they choose not to play that years game because the quality was poor?
Or passionate fan of a band, who has gone to every tour show, but chooses not to go to the latest one because the latest album was bad?
I'm not arguing against the wider point about what does and doesn't make a fairweather fan because I think that's not a good argument to have (we're all Charlton fans, some of us have different circumstances), but this is a bad comparison. You buy FIFA with the express intention of it being an enjoyable experience. It's a product made to be an enjoyable experience. If they fail in that then their game hasn't met its purpose. Supporting a football team is completely different though; you don't go to watch Charlton with the express intention that you'll be having a good time, you go in hope and accept that there's a decent chance you'll end up upset or angry at the end of the experience. Football teams don't exist to make you happy like a product does, they exist to compete and survive and hopefully the people who watch them do it get to enjoy it. That's part of the joy of supporting a football team, the good feels so much better because it has to battle through the potential for the bad. If that wasn't the case then there wouldn't be any Charlton fans at all, we'd all follow Bayern Munich. Ten consecutive years of league titles and every time a rival team produces a decent player you just take them off their hands with your financial muscle. Easy. It's more like a relationship; it won't always make you happy, people won't always get it and you can walk away whenever you want depending on the strength of feeling you have there, but it doesn't exist with the sole intention of making you happy like a product does.
Yet the moment something bad happens to a footballer on the pitch, such as with Fabrice Muamba, people rush out to claim 'how it puts it all in perspective, and football is only just a game'.
It can't be both things.
And also, go on reddit, or forums related specific things like games like Fifa and Call of Duty and you will find that the time, love and passion the some people put into those things are equally as akin to them as football is to others.
it might drive me mental watching us at the moment and do nothing for my mood - but it's literally the only thing I have to look forward to sitting at home working all week!.
Plus I love the whole production, would pay the tenner just to listen to Scotty, Curbs + guests chat over old times
That just depresses me more. You got Curbs talking such sense and talking about the good old times. Then you watch as Bowyer plays his 56th different formation of the season and the players just walking round like they've just met.
Thomas has invested a lot of money buying the club. The only regular income the club gets is money from Valley Pass. The least we can do is support the club in this way. Why should Thomas put the money in and then fans turn their backs. If moneys tight , that's different but put your faith in Thomas Sandgaard , where would we be without him.
I get most Saturday games, but not midweek matches as it's a mixture of want my evenings to myself, and it'll be impossible to get my eldest to bed if the game was on, and I can't be arsed to deal with an over-emotional 7-year-old when we lose. It's bad enough dealing with you lot after a defeat.
Surely putting Charlton on is the perfect way to get a child into bed
”Dad, can’t I go to bed? Or clean my room? Or do some more algebra, anything but watching Charlton lose again!”
I get most Saturday games, but not midweek matches as it's a mixture of want my evenings to myself, and it'll be impossible to get my eldest to bed if the game was on, and I can't be arsed to deal with an over-emotional 7-year-old when we lose. It's bad enough dealing with you lot after a defeat.
Surely putting Charlton on is the perfect way to get a child into bed
”Dad, can’t I go to bed? Or clean my room? Or do some more algebra, anything but watching Charlton lose again!”
He's so into it at the moment, I have to scrap him off Youtube watching old videos of us playing, and him asking me about Kish because he watched highlights from a game in 2002. One child indoctrinated, one to go
I think there is a big difference here to when I have felt other recent managers have reached what I perceived to be the end of the line for them.
I genuinely really like Bowyer, think he has been brilliant for our club in giving us some hope and belief when it completely looked lost and as such, even though I personally believe he has burnt out and it is time for a change, I will continue to support him while he is still manager of our club.
As alluded to earlier, if TS has decided that Bowyer has earned this opportunity to turn it around then that actually gives me more hope of a level headed owner who won't panic and make rash decisions.
For me to believe Bowyer can turn it around though, I need to see us with our younger, faster more attacking players, going in believing through hard work and quality, we can outplay our opposition. Pratley and Watson just slow the game up too much.
Probably going to get slated for this and understand completely if people's finances are tight and have to pick and choose games a bit more but is not watching Charlton purely when they're on a bad run a bit fairweather?
No, why would it be? The emotions I get watching Charlton play are completely different to most things I experience in my life - I have no interest in watching any other football, but the level of joy and feeling of contentment I get from watching Charlton win a game is only matched from spending time with my son.
And at the moment, due to the performances on the pitch, I would rather spend those hours with my family.
Would you call someone who enjoyed a video game franchise, say FIFA, and played them for every year, a fairweather fan if they choose not to play that years game because the quality was poor?
Or passionate fan of a band, who has gone to every tour show, but chooses not to go to the latest one because the latest album was bad?
I'm not arguing against the wider point about what does and doesn't make a fairweather fan because I think that's not a good argument to have (we're all Charlton fans, some of us have different circumstances), but this is a bad comparison. You buy FIFA with the express intention of it being an enjoyable experience. It's a product made to be an enjoyable experience. If they fail in that then their game hasn't met its purpose. Supporting a football team is completely different though; you don't go to watch Charlton with the express intention that you'll be having a good time, you go in hope and accept that there's a decent chance you'll end up upset or angry at the end of the experience. Football teams don't exist to make you happy like a product does, they exist to compete and survive and hopefully the people who watch them do it get to enjoy it. That's part of the joy of supporting a football team, the good feels so much better because it has to battle through the potential for the bad. If that wasn't the case then there wouldn't be any Charlton fans at all, we'd all follow Bayern Munich. Ten consecutive years of league titles and every time a rival team produces a decent player you just take them off their hands with your financial muscle. Easy. It's more like a relationship; it won't always make you happy, people won't always get it and you can walk away whenever you want depending on the strength of feeling you have there, but it doesn't exist with the sole intention of making you happy like a product does.
Yet the moment something bad happens to a footballer on the pitch, such as with Fabrice Muamba, people rush out to claim 'how it puts it all in perspective, and football is only just a game'.
It can't be both things.
Been said a lot over the last year. Middle of a pandemic and although football has been something to look forward to, it's "put things into perspective".
Personally I don't mind us being shit, I've been a fairly loyal supporter for the last 15 years. I grew up watching Premier League football and can accept we're a million miles from that. But if Sandgaard has "obviously given up on the season", is it fair to carry on paying to watch us turn up, put little effort in and grab the odd win from now until May?
Thomas has invested a lot of money buying the club. The only regular income the club gets is money from Valley Pass. The least we can do is support the club in this way. Why should Thomas put the money in and then fans turn their backs. If moneys tight , that's different but put your faith in Thomas Sandgaard , where would we be without him.
Is that fair if Sandgaard has given up but is going to sack Bowyer at the end of the season?
This is where the streaming concept is a danger for the future of football. Whereas as supporters like myself who have committed to buying season tickets including 10 year & 5 year tickets, over the past 50 years & attend nearly every away game & will continue to, if possible, the streaming concept will become like any other tv programme whereby people will soon get fed up or find something better to watch on another channel. I would buy a 10 year season ticket tomorrow if they were available, Bowyer as manager or not, it wouldn't make any difference.
Boycotting Valley Pass? Have a word with yourselves.
Interested to see when the club starts offering season tickets, as there seems to be a clear path to people being in stadiums, although that is subject to change in the late autumn/winter
Bows on with Jim White this morning. No idea what time
"Lee, ahve got a text message heyre from Chris Farnell, and he's saying that he owns tha club!"
Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest with White.
It would be typical of him to ask a stupid question to someone who has nothing to do with the ownership of the Club. The answer will be along the lines of I do the playing side and ignore the noise in the background.
Probably going to get slated for this and understand completely if people's finances are tight and have to pick and choose games a bit more but is not watching Charlton purely when they're on a bad run a bit fairweather?
No, why would it be? The emotions I get watching Charlton play are completely different to most things I experience in my life - I have no interest in watching any other football, but the level of joy and feeling of contentment I get from watching Charlton win a game is only matched from spending time with my son.
And at the moment, due to the performances on the pitch, I would rather spend those hours with my family.
Would you call someone who enjoyed a video game franchise, say FIFA, and played them for every year, a fairweather fan if they choose not to play that years game because the quality was poor?
Or passionate fan of a band, who has gone to every tour show, but chooses not to go to the latest one because the latest album was bad?
I'm not arguing against the wider point about what does and doesn't make a fairweather fan because I think that's not a good argument to have (we're all Charlton fans, some of us have different circumstances), but this is a bad comparison. You buy FIFA with the express intention of it being an enjoyable experience. It's a product made to be an enjoyable experience. If they fail in that then their game hasn't met its purpose. Supporting a football team is completely different though; you don't go to watch Charlton with the express intention that you'll be having a good time, you go in hope and accept that there's a decent chance you'll end up upset or angry at the end of the experience. Football teams don't exist to make you happy like a product does, they exist to compete and survive and hopefully the people who watch them do it get to enjoy it. That's part of the joy of supporting a football team, the good feels so much better because it has to battle through the potential for the bad. If that wasn't the case then there wouldn't be any Charlton fans at all, we'd all follow Bayern Munich. Ten consecutive years of league titles and every time a rival team produces a decent player you just take them off their hands with your financial muscle. Easy. It's more like a relationship; it won't always make you happy, people won't always get it and you can walk away whenever you want depending on the strength of feeling you have there, but it doesn't exist with the sole intention of making you happy like a product does.
Yet the moment something bad happens to a footballer on the pitch, such as with Fabrice Muamba, people rush out to claim 'how it puts it all in perspective, and football is only just a game'.
It can't be both things.
And also, go on reddit, or forums related specific things like games like Fifa and Call of Duty and you will find that the time, love and passion the some people put into those things are equally as akin to them as football is to others.
I think that's not quite my point. I'm not denying the passion people have for games and the disappointment they feel when they aren't good (fuck you Devil May Cry 2), but the point I was making is that there's a difference between a product designed specifically to be enjoyed and watching a game that doesn't care if you have fun, and where you know full well that you might not enjoy it, and depending on the team you support in some cases it's more likely you won't than you will. As we politely pointed out to Katrien, football fans aren't customers, there's a sense of shared 'ownership' around a club that is different to the sense of entitlement that some gamers feel when new releases don't live up to their expectations. I don't think they're comparable in this case
Whatever happened to supporting your team through thick and thin? Some of the posts on here are quite simply embarrassing.
As for the disrespect being shown to Bowyer when things ain’t going our way just remember when our club was desperately on its knees Bowyer stood by us and kept our club alive. He has earn’t through his loyalty to us a summer with no distractions, no shit owners, no transfer embargo and no wage cap.
Probably going to get slated for this and understand completely if people's finances are tight and have to pick and choose games a bit more but is not watching Charlton purely when they're on a bad run a bit fairweather?
No, why would it be? The emotions I get watching Charlton play are completely different to most things I experience in my life - I have no interest in watching any other football, but the level of joy and feeling of contentment I get from watching Charlton win a game is only matched from spending time with my son.
And at the moment, due to the performances on the pitch, I would rather spend those hours with my family.
Would you call someone who enjoyed a video game franchise, say FIFA, and played them for every year, a fairweather fan if they choose not to play that years game because the quality was poor?
Or passionate fan of a band, who has gone to every tour show, but chooses not to go to the latest one because the latest album was bad?
I'm not arguing against the wider point about what does and doesn't make a fairweather fan because I think that's not a good argument to have (we're all Charlton fans, some of us have different circumstances), but this is a bad comparison. You buy FIFA with the express intention of it being an enjoyable experience. It's a product made to be an enjoyable experience. If they fail in that then their game hasn't met its purpose. Supporting a football team is completely different though; you don't go to watch Charlton with the express intention that you'll be having a good time, you go in hope and accept that there's a decent chance you'll end up upset or angry at the end of the experience. Football teams don't exist to make you happy like a product does, they exist to compete and survive and hopefully the people who watch them do it get to enjoy it. That's part of the joy of supporting a football team, the good feels so much better because it has to battle through the potential for the bad. If that wasn't the case then there wouldn't be any Charlton fans at all, we'd all follow Bayern Munich. Ten consecutive years of league titles and every time a rival team produces a decent player you just take them off their hands with your financial muscle. Easy. It's more like a relationship; it won't always make you happy, people won't always get it and you can walk away whenever you want depending on the strength of feeling you have there, but it doesn't exist with the sole intention of making you happy like a product does.
Yet the moment something bad happens to a footballer on the pitch, such as with Fabrice Muamba, people rush out to claim 'how it puts it all in perspective, and football is only just a game'.
It can't be both things.
And also, go on reddit, or forums related specific things like games like Fifa and Call of Duty and you will find that the time, love and passion the some people put into those things are equally as akin to them as football is to others.
I think that's not quite my point. I'm not denying the passion people have for games and the disappointment they feel when they aren't good (fuck you Devil May Cry 2), but the point I was making is that there's a difference between a product designed specifically to be enjoyed and watching a game that doesn't care if you have fun, and where you know full well that you might not enjoy it, and depending on the team you support in some cases it's more likely you won't than you will. As we politely pointed out to Katrien, football fans aren't customers, there's a sense of shared 'ownership' around a club that is different to the sense of entitlement that some gamers feel when new releases don't live up to their expectations. I don't think they're comparable in this case
I totally get your point about being a difference between a product designed specifically to be enjoyed and watching a game that doesn't care if you have fun. I think it is a very good point.
Perhaps it is more a modern phenomenon initiated by social media and the way that 'customers' and 'fans' can interact with designers, developers, musicians etc. But I can go on the 'Heathstone' (a digital collectible card game for those less geeky than me) forum now and those individuals posting and interacting on there will have the same sense of shared ownership and loyalty to that game as fans do towards their football team. They live and breath it the exact same way, and feel there views on the future of the game and how it should be developed is as valid as anyone elses including the developers.
Very interesting conversation/debate to be had for sure . Though perhaps a little off topic for this thread ha ha.
While the decision about Bowyer's future remains Sandgaard's prerogative (and rightly so), if/when a decision has been made I would hope that some sort of statement would be made.
Unfortunately we are now in the position of where many fans seem to expect Bowyer to leave at some point but with a question of when. A bit of clarity and direction would certainly not go amiss, even if it's just a generic "we still haven't decided but conversations are ongoing."
Whatever happened to supporting your team through thick and thin? Some of the posts on here are quite simply embarrassing.
As for the disrespect being shown to Bowyer when things ain’t going our way just remember when our club was desperately on its knees Bowyer stood by us and kept our club alive. He has earn’t through his loyalty to us a summer with no distractions, no shit owners, no transfer embargo and no wage cap.
I have been supporting Charlton for 55 years and have seen more "thin" times than "thick" ones however it does not make me dis-loyal if I want to see a manager out of his depth replaced.
While the decision about Bowyer's future remains Sandgaard's prerogative (and rightly so), if/when a decision has been made I would hope that some sort of statement would be made.
Unfortunately we are now in the position of where many fans seem to expect Bowyer to leave at some point but with a question of when. A bit of clarity and direction would certainly not go amiss, even if it's just a generic "we still haven't decided but conversations are ongoing."
I am not sure why the narrative has changed on this. The last 8-6 weeks haven't been any different to the proceeding similar period. The only difference is how long it's gone on for.
Or do people think its genuinely got worse?
Regardless of my opinion I would have been surprised if he had been sacked in December and, being honest, I would still be surprised if he was sacked now.
The problem we currently have is that we still have 1/3 of the season left to play. If we have 5/6 games to go I would probably accept that waiting to the end of the season is reasonable.
Over the last twenty games we are 17th in the form table. We are 4 points above 15th place Blackpool who we play on Saturday. If things don’t start picking up soon we could easily be in the bottom half of the table and almost 10 points of the top 6. 16 matches are a lot to sit through when we are just waiting to the end of the season to come around.
I don't think it's fair people criticising others for not wanting buy the streams at the moment.
Life is depressing enough at the moment in lockdown & a pandemic. I don't need to feel even more depressed and upset every Tuesday & Saturday on top of that!!
Putting on my deerstalker and puffing on my pipe I think we can try to work out what could be going on. Firstly the evidence, the playing side is there for all to see and I'm sure Sandgaard isn't happy with it. How could he be? We are also hearing that Ged Roddy is certainly not happy with Bowyer. So why not pull the trigger?
I would imagine there is a financial element to Sandgaard's plan and a performance meltdown from the manager is probably not part of it. Sandgaard has said that Bowyer was a factor that made the club more attractive to him after all so he wasn't expecting this. Paying out circa £1m unexpectedly is probably not that enticing for him.
But surely he is still going to have to pay at some point? Why not just do it now? Maybe there is a view that Bowyer may walk out of pride or in a fit of temper. We are probably at a point where it is possible to get into 6th (I would say 10 wins from 16 would give us a fighting chance) but it is unlikely. That may be more unlikely with Bowyer at the moment, but not that likely without him. The best time to sack him was probably 5 or 6 games ago. So it is probably about risk and reward.
What we haven't heard, which I think we would if Bowyer was going to be given the Summer, was some words of support from Thomas. He has been very quiet on performances and restricting his comments largely to a Boom here or there when we have scored a goal. If you want a manager to walk, maybe the conditions are not supportive day to day at all. Also, if Sandgaard has told Bowyer he has to get 6th, he may feel he has to give him the chance to achieve it.
Anyway, just some guesses. Trying to explain to myself why Bowyer hasn't been sacked.
While the decision about Bowyer's future remains Sandgaard's prerogative (and rightly so), if/when a decision has been made I would hope that some sort of statement would be made.
Unfortunately we are now in the position of where many fans seem to expect Bowyer to leave at some point but with a question of when. A bit of clarity and direction would certainly not go amiss, even if it's just a generic "we still haven't decided but conversations are ongoing."
They would never put a statement out like that while Bowyer is still in charge, it would be very disrespectful.
There have been a couple of reports, not 100% verified, that he doesn't rate Bowyer. One appeared on the other site we don't mention, and another on here where a poster reported Roddy told an ex colleague (who he knew) this.
There have been a couple of reports, not 100% verified, that he doesn't rate Bowyer. One appeared on the other site we don't mention, and another on here where a poster reported Roddy told an ex colleague (who he knew) this.
According to Jim White on Talkshite Bowyer has Sandgaards full backing so his opinion on Lee may not matter?
Probably going to get slated for this and understand completely if people's finances are tight and have to pick and choose games a bit more but is not watching Charlton purely when they're on a bad run a bit fairweather?
I've watched every game this season on VP and I'll watch all the rest. The main reason, if I'm honest, is that I feel Thomas Sandgaard deserves my support after the way he so determinedly completed the takeover despite all the hurdles he has to overcome. That's also why I'll be at the Valley next season, even if we're still shit.
There have been a couple of reports, not 100% verified, that he doesn't rate Bowyer. One appeared on the other site we don't mention, and another on here where a poster reported Roddy told an ex colleague (who he knew) this.
The problem with that other site is that the moderator just makes stuff up all the time.
Lee mate. Chose your preferred system. Pick your best players to fit that and give it a fair crack. Allow the players a chance to gel into that system instead of asking them to do different things every match. No wonder they’re not gelling. Once players are comfortable with that you can tweak even during the game but third tier players need a shape to hang their hats on and fall back on when it’s tough. Keep it simple and choose your best players.
Comments
It can't be both things.
And also, go on reddit, or forums related specific things like games like Fifa and Call of Duty and you will find that the time, love and passion the some people put into those things are equally as akin to them as football is to others.
”Dad, can’t I go to bed? Or clean my room? Or do some more algebra, anything but watching Charlton lose again!”
I genuinely really like Bowyer, think he has been brilliant for our club in giving us some hope and belief when it completely looked lost and as such, even though I personally believe he has burnt out and it is time for a change, I will continue to support him while he is still manager of our club.
As alluded to earlier, if TS has decided that Bowyer has earned this opportunity to turn it around then that actually gives me more hope of a level headed owner who won't panic and make rash decisions.
For me to believe Bowyer can turn it around though, I need to see us with our younger, faster more attacking players, going in believing through hard work and quality, we can outplay our opposition. Pratley and Watson just slow the game up too much.
Personally I don't mind us being shit, I've been a fairly loyal supporter for the last 15 years. I grew up watching Premier League football and can accept we're a million miles from that. But if Sandgaard has "obviously given up on the season", is it fair to carry on paying to watch us turn up, put little effort in and grab the odd win from now until May?
Whereas as supporters like myself who have committed to buying season tickets including 10 year & 5 year tickets, over the past 50 years & attend nearly every away game & will continue to, if possible, the streaming concept will become like any other tv programme whereby people will soon get fed up or find something better to watch on another channel.
I would buy a 10 year season ticket tomorrow if they were available, Bowyer as manager or not, it wouldn't make any difference.
Interested to see when the club starts offering season tickets, as there seems to be a clear path to people being in stadiums, although that is subject to change in the late autumn/winter
The answer will be along the lines of I do the playing side and ignore the noise in the background.
As for the disrespect being shown to Bowyer when things ain’t going our way just remember when our club was desperately on its knees Bowyer stood by us and kept our club alive. He has earn’t through his loyalty to us a summer with no distractions, no shit owners, no transfer embargo and no wage cap.
Perhaps it is more a modern phenomenon initiated by social media and the way that 'customers' and 'fans' can interact with designers, developers, musicians etc. But I can go on the 'Heathstone' (a digital collectible card game for those less geeky than me) forum now and those individuals posting and interacting on there will have the same sense of shared ownership and loyalty to that game as fans do towards their football team. They live and breath it the exact same way, and feel there views on the future of the game and how it should be developed is as valid as anyone elses including the developers.
Very interesting conversation/debate to be had for sure
Unfortunately we are now in the position of where many fans seem to expect Bowyer to leave at some point but with a question of when. A bit of clarity and direction would certainly not go amiss, even if it's just a generic "we still haven't decided but conversations are ongoing."
Or do people think its genuinely got worse?
Regardless of my opinion I would have been surprised if he had been sacked in December and, being honest, I would still be surprised if he was sacked now.
Over the last twenty games we are 17th in the form table. We are 4 points above 15th place Blackpool who we play on Saturday. If things don’t start picking up soon we could easily be in the bottom half of the table and almost 10 points of the top 6. 16 matches are a lot to sit through when we are just waiting to the end of the season to come around.
Life is depressing enough at the moment in lockdown & a pandemic. I don't need to feel even more depressed and upset every Tuesday & Saturday on top of that!!
I would imagine there is a financial element to Sandgaard's plan and a performance meltdown from the manager is probably not part of it. Sandgaard has said that Bowyer was a factor that made the club more attractive to him after all so he wasn't expecting this. Paying out circa £1m unexpectedly is probably not that enticing for him.
But surely he is still going to have to pay at some point? Why not just do it now? Maybe there is a view that Bowyer may walk out of pride or in a fit of temper. We are probably at a point where it is possible to get into 6th (I would say 10 wins from 16 would give us a fighting chance) but it is unlikely. That may be more unlikely with Bowyer at the moment, but not that likely without him. The best time to sack him was probably 5 or 6 games ago. So it is probably about risk and reward.
What we haven't heard, which I think we would if Bowyer was going to be given the Summer, was some words of support from Thomas. He has been very quiet on performances and restricting his comments largely to a Boom here or there when we have scored a goal. If you want a manager to walk, maybe the conditions are not supportive day to day at all. Also, if Sandgaard has told Bowyer he has to get 6th, he may feel he has to give him the chance to achieve it.
Anyway, just some guesses. Trying to explain to myself why Bowyer hasn't been sacked.