2 years ago Bowyer was our hero and I am sure he is Birmingham's hero today. I don't think anybody has said he didn't do a great job on both occasions. But surely it is fair to point out his key part in our costly slump this season rather than decide it didn't happen and had nothing to do with him because of 2 years ago.
I can’t believe some of the comments on here about lee bowyer and how bad he was and should of got rid sooner etc etc. Yet 2 years ago at Wembley he was our hero,and the best thing since sliced bread.we all know about southall and all the other dickheads trying to jump on the bandwagon , the wage cap then on top of all this he and Steve gallen scowled around lower league clubs and trying to get youngsters on loan. Despite all these setbacks they put a descent squad together.A lot of people on here are going on about missed penalties as the outcome of our season,penalties are far from easy when you think about the goal is 24 feet across if the keeper just lies down and stretches his arms out that leaves you approximately 3 foot to squeeze the ball in to the corner not easy the reason we didn’t make the playoffs was the schoolboy defending in a spell where we were giving 2 or 3 goals away, if we hadn’t had those injuries to innis and Famewo I think we would have got automatic promotion with hull.and ultimately a manager can only pick the team , once their out there it’s down to them,so some of the players will have to have a long look at themselves instead of laying the blame at bowyers feet.
I can’t believe some of the comments on here about lee bowyer and how bad he was and should of got rid sooner etc etc. Yet 2 years ago at Wembley he was our hero,and the best thing since sliced bread.we all know about southall and all the other dickheads trying to jump on the bandwagon , the wage cap then on top of all this he and Steve gallen scowled around lower league clubs and trying to get youngsters on loan. Despite all these setbacks they put a descent squad together.A lot of people on here are going on about missed penalties as the outcome of our season,penalties are far from easy when you think about the goal is 24 feet across if the keeper just lies down and stretches his arms out that leaves you approximately 3 foot to squeeze the ball in to the corner not easy the reason we didn’t make the playoffs was the schoolboy defending in a spell where we were giving 2 or 3 goals away, if we hadn’t had those injuries to innis and Famewo I think we would have got automatic promotion with hull.and ultimately a manager can only pick the team , once their out there it’s down to them,so some of the players will have to have a long look at themselves instead of laying the blame at bowyers feet.
A goal is 24ft x 8 ft (guess) so 192 sq ft. A keeper with arms stretched is perhaps 8 ft x 2 ft, perhaps 16 sq ft. This leaves around 176 sq ft to "squeeze the ball in the net", not 3 foot, by my very rough calculation. (Unless the keeper is approximately 19ft tall and 7 foot wide).
I can’t believe some of the comments on here about lee bowyer and how bad he was and should of got rid sooner etc etc. Yet 2 years ago at Wembley he was our hero,and the best thing since sliced bread.we all know about southall and all the other dickheads trying to jump on the bandwagon , the wage cap then on top of all this he and Steve gallen scowled around lower league clubs and trying to get youngsters on loan. Despite all these setbacks they put a descent squad together.A lot of people on here are going on about missed penalties as the outcome of our season,penalties are far from easy when you think about the goal is 24 feet across if the keeper just lies down and stretches his arms out that leaves you approximately 3 foot to squeeze the ball in to the corner not easy the reason we didn’t make the playoffs was the schoolboy defending in a spell where we were giving 2 or 3 goals away, if we hadn’t had those injuries to innis and Famewo I think we would have got automatic promotion with hull.and ultimately a manager can only pick the team , once their out there it’s down to them,so some of the players will have to have a long look at themselves instead of laying the blame at bowyers feet.
What I’m trying to say covered end is taking a penalty is far from easy,and some comments on here are complaining about missed penalties when the reason for not making the playoffs was our terrible results from 21st November until 13th March where we only got 12 points out of a possible 36 we scored 17 goals in that spell only failing to score in 1 match, so our attack were doing their job.where as the defence shipped 20 goals only managing to keep a clean sheet on 2 out of 12 matches so now we all know where we failed to make the playoffs no more harping on about missed penalties.
What I’m trying to say covered end is taking a penalty is far from easy,and some comments on here are complaining about missed penalties when the reason for not making the playoffs was our terrible results from 21st November until 13th March where we only got 12 points out of a possible 36 we scored 17 goals in that spell only failing to score in 1 match, so our attack were doing their job.where as the defence shipped 20 goals only managing to keep a clean sheet on 2 out of 12 matches so now we all know where we failed to make the playoffs no more harping on about missed penalties.
Yes, I just disagree that to score a penalty you have to somehow be able to squeeze the ball into a 3 foot target.
What I’m saying muttleycafc is any team losing both 1st choice centre backs for months would crumble like we did ,and unfortunately Pearce and oshilaja failed to step into innis and Famewos boots what was bowyer supposed to do he tried playing Gunter at centre back but that wasn’t very successful, some people suggested getting a centre back on loan but to get a good one with a wage cap going on is nigh on lmpossible, but IMO blaming bowyer is unfair.
I know what you are saying, and I agree that it is reasonable to expect the situation would weaken a side. What I am saying is even so, we could have got more points during this period because we still had a decent squad, but maybe due to the pressure of the situation and some poor results, Bowyer had a bit of a meltdown that effectively made us compensating for the difficulty more difficult. What I think is a reasonable view is that Bowyer had to go through so much adversity, it all became too much. And given the ability to reset, he has shown his obvious strengths.
Of course, if you take the position that dressing room unrest during this period is just hearsay then your position makes sense. Nothing will be achieved by going through incidents I am confident happened. Some have been reported on here from reliable posters and some haven't been reported at all. I think some posters have misinterpreted my position. And that was, is, not to hate Bowyer, but to realise that for his sake and ours he had to leave if we were going to have any chance of promotion with the squad we had. Sadly, for us, it happened too late. But we got a total of points that would be Play Offs most seasons.
Hello muttleycafc I’ve only been on this forum for 2 months unlike my brother davo55 whose been on here years but the few debates we’ve had I’ve throughly enjoyed,I played the game up to southern league in the seventies,I like to think over they years I learnt enough to know what I’m talking about and it’s nice to debate things with other people like you you seem to know what your talking about. I know it’s an open forum but i can’t stand some of the comments on here where it’s obvious they’ve never kicked a ball in their life, and just talk a lot of shit and it’s clear they don’t have a glue,but I guess at the end of the day their hearts are with charlton
Thanks Davo53. If we all agreed with everything there wouldn't be any point in having a forum. Some try to make it personal when making the point you believe in and trying to make your case is what it is all about. Water off a duck's back for me if people wish to be immature.
I may be wrong, but I won't shy away from saying what I think is true, whether that be concerns about Southall when that was an unpopular position (that was the case at one point) and being early to the party with concerns about Bowyer. Of course we remember the times we believe we were proved right more than when we were proved wrong, but for me, saying what you see is what a forum should be about. Right or wrong (like you are on this one)
I can’t believe some of the comments on here about lee bowyer and how bad he was and should of got rid sooner etc etc. Yet 2 years ago at Wembley he was our hero,and the best thing since sliced bread.we all know about southall and all the other dickheads trying to jump on the bandwagon , the wage cap then on top of all this he and Steve gallen scowled around lower league clubs and trying to get youngsters on loan. Despite all these setbacks they put a descent squad together.A lot of people on here are going on about missed penalties as the outcome of our season,penalties are far from easy when you think about the goal is 24 feet across if the keeper just lies down and stretches his arms out that leaves you approximately 3 foot to squeeze the ball in to the corner not easy the reason we didn’t make the playoffs was the schoolboy defending in a spell where we were giving 2 or 3 goals away, if we hadn’t had those injuries to innis and Famewo I think we would have got automatic promotion with hull.and ultimately a manager can only pick the team , once their out there it’s down to them,so some of the players will have to have a long look at themselves instead of laying the blame at bowyers feet.
I knew keepers were some of the biggest players but I didn't realise they were that tall!
Hello muttleycafc I’ve only been on this forum for 2 months unlike my brother davo55 whose been on here years but the few debates we’ve had I’ve throughly enjoyed,I played the game up to southern league in the seventies,I like to think over they years I learnt enough to know what I’m talking about and it’s nice to debate things with other people like you you seem to know what your talking about. I know it’s an open forum but i can’t stand some of the comments on here where it’s obvious they’ve never kicked a ball in their life, and just talk a lot of shit and it’s clear they don’t have a glue,but I guess at the end of the day their hearts are with charlton
At least they won't get into any sticky situations.
I can’t believe some of the comments on here about lee bowyer and how bad he was and should of got rid sooner etc etc. Yet 2 years ago at Wembley he was our hero,and the best thing since sliced bread.we all know about southall and all the other dickheads trying to jump on the bandwagon , the wage cap then on top of all this he and Steve gallen scowled around lower league clubs and trying to get youngsters on loan. Despite all these setbacks they put a descent squad together.A lot of people on here are going on about missed penalties as the outcome of our season,penalties are far from easy when you think about the goal is 24 feet across if the keeper just lies down and stretches his arms out that leaves you approximately 3 foot to squeeze the ball in to the corner not easy the reason we didn’t make the playoffs was the schoolboy defending in a spell where we were giving 2 or 3 goals away, if we hadn’t had those injuries to innis and Famewo I think we would have got automatic promotion with hull.and ultimately a manager can only pick the team , once their out there it’s down to them,so some of the players will have to have a long look at themselves instead of laying the blame at bowyers feet.
I knew keepers were some of the biggest players but I didn't realise they were that tall!
A 6' 3" 'keeper with their arms above their head is about 8'. Given they are reasonably mobile, if they dive the right way from the middle of the goal, they will easily cover the 12' from where they're standing to the post. So, actually, you don't have much of a gap to get through if they do go the right way, you've got to either get the ball there faster than they can dive or put it too high for them to reach - from the centre of the goal to the top corner is √(12^2 + 8^2) = √208 = just over 14', so aiming for the top corner gives you the best chance of the 'keeper not reaching it but a greater chance, I guess, of missing the actual goal or everyone would always aim there.
So, even though he doesn't seem know what a paragraph is, @Davo53's analysis is reasonably accurate and certainly better than those mocking him.
I believe a few years back that some Germain scientific research suggested that their is an area in the top right and left corner that if a ball is hit at a certain speed from a penalty, it is impossible to save it and it should be comfortable for a reasonable player to achieve this. I have wondered since why penalty takers don't just work on putting the ball in that area at that speed. Mind you, I can't find the research anymore so maybe it has been debunked!
I can’t believe some of the comments on here about lee bowyer and how bad he was and should of got rid sooner etc etc. Yet 2 years ago at Wembley he was our hero,and the best thing since sliced bread.we all know about southall and all the other dickheads trying to jump on the bandwagon , the wage cap then on top of all this he and Steve gallen scowled around lower league clubs and trying to get youngsters on loan. Despite all these setbacks they put a descent squad together.A lot of people on here are going on about missed penalties as the outcome of our season,penalties are far from easy when you think about the goal is 24 feet across if the keeper just lies down and stretches his arms out that leaves you approximately 3 foot to squeeze the ball in to the corner not easy the reason we didn’t make the playoffs was the schoolboy defending in a spell where we were giving 2 or 3 goals away, if we hadn’t had those injuries to innis and Famewo I think we would have got automatic promotion with hull.and ultimately a manager can only pick the team , once their out there it’s down to them,so some of the players will have to have a long look at themselves instead of laying the blame at bowyers feet.
I knew keepers were some of the biggest players but I didn't realise they were that tall!
A 6' 3" 'keeper with their arms above their head is about 8'. Given they are reasonably mobile, if they dive the right way from the middle of the goal, they will easily cover the 12' from where they're standing to the post. So, actually, you don't have much of a gap to get through if they do go the right way, you've got to either get the ball there faster than they can dive or put it too high for them to reach - from the centre of the goal to the top corner is √(12^2 + 8^2) = √208 = just over 14', so aiming for the top corner gives you the best chance of the 'keeper not reaching it but a greater chance, I guess, of missing the actual goal or everyone would always aim there.
So, even though he doesn't seem know what a paragraph is, @Davo53's analysis is reasonably accurate and certainly better than those mocking him.
AA what you say is of course correct, but it's nothing like what Davo53 said, which was - "The goal is 24 feet across, if the keeper just lies down and stretches his arms out that leaves you approximately 3 foot to squeeze the ball in to the corner".
Obviously, I'm yet to see a keeper attempt to stop a penalty being scored by attempting this.
I can’t believe some of the comments on here about lee bowyer and how bad he was and should of got rid sooner etc etc. Yet 2 years ago at Wembley he was our hero,and the best thing since sliced bread.we all know about southall and all the other dickheads trying to jump on the bandwagon , the wage cap then on top of all this he and Steve gallen scowled around lower league clubs and trying to get youngsters on loan. Despite all these setbacks they put a descent squad together.A lot of people on here are going on about missed penalties as the outcome of our season,penalties are far from easy when you think about the goal is 24 feet across if the keeper just lies down and stretches his arms out that leaves you approximately 3 foot to squeeze the ball in to the corner not easy the reason we didn’t make the playoffs was the schoolboy defending in a spell where we were giving 2 or 3 goals away, if we hadn’t had those injuries to innis and Famewo I think we would have got automatic promotion with hull.and ultimately a manager can only pick the team , once their out there it’s down to them,so some of the players will have to have a long look at themselves instead of laying the blame at bowyers feet.
I knew keepers were some of the biggest players but I didn't realise they were that tall!
A 6' 3" 'keeper with their arms above their head is about 8'. Given they are reasonably mobile, if they dive the right way from the middle of the goal, they will easily cover the 12' from where they're standing to the post. So, actually, you don't have much of a gap to get through if they do go the right way, you've got to either get the ball there faster than they can dive or put it too high for them to reach - from the centre of the goal to the top corner is √(12^2 + 8^2) = √208 = just over 14', so aiming for the top corner gives you the best chance of the 'keeper not reaching it but a greater chance, I guess, of missing the actual goal or everyone would always aim there.
So, even though he doesn't seem know what a paragraph is, @Davo53's analysis is reasonably accurate and certainly better than those mocking him.
Not really, he said a goalkeeper laying down is 18 foot wide.
Thank you very much addicks addict that’s exactly what I was trying to explain, if the keeper goes the right way he almost reaches the post and if the ball is anything from 2foot to 5 foot off the ground there’s a good chance he will save it as seen with the penalties taken by Schwartz and stockley both hit with power but not close enough to the post in that 3 foot space wether it be a high or low penalty. The whole debate was because people were saying the missed penalties cost us the playoff spot, and I was trying to point out taking penalties is far from easy as people who have taken them will know. That’s why the majority of players shy away from them and leave it to the 1or2 who have the confidence to take them.when the real reason is the poor 12 points out of a possible 36 that was our downfall.
I would be interested to know how much work goes into penalties. In theory, you get your best footballers and get them to practise putting it top left or right area with sufficient power that it becomes unsaveable. The study I mentioned indicated the skill level required to do this reliably was not impossible to find in a high number of professional players.
Oh and addicks addict thanks for pointing out glue instead of clue wrong words no paragraphs I’m sure if thenewbie sees this I’ll get detention tonight!
Hello cafcfan1990,covered end and iaitch it’s clear to me if you can’t understand what I was trying to get across ,and taking the piss you obviously never played the game, and come under the category of haven’t got a clue but my hearts with charlton!
Hello cafcfan1990,covered end and iaitch it’s clear to me if you can’t understand what I was trying to get across ,and taking the piss you obviously never played the game, and come under the category of haven’t got a clue but my hearts with charlton!
Not a overreaction to my comment at all! I was a keeper by the way
Maybe I was little harsh and should take a minute or two before I reply, I enjoy the comments and banter on this forum very much , but when somebody comes out with a blatant piss take about paragraphs when I left school 52 years ago I take exception to that.
Maybe I was little harsh and should take a minute or two before I reply, I enjoy the comments and banter on this forum very much , but when somebody comes out with a blatant piss take about paragraphs when I left school 52 years ago I take exception to that.
Fair enough but I didn't do it, nor did the other two you dug out.
I can’t believe some of the comments on here about lee bowyer and how bad he was and should of got rid sooner etc etc. Yet 2 years ago at Wembley he was our hero,and the best thing since sliced bread.we all know about southall and all the other dickheads trying to jump on the bandwagon , the wage cap then on top of all this he and Steve gallen scowled around lower league clubs and trying to get youngsters on loan. Despite all these setbacks they put a descent squad together.A lot of people on here are going on about missed penalties as the outcome of our season,penalties are far from easy when you think about the goal is 24 feet across if the keeper just lies down and stretches his arms out that leaves you approximately 3 foot to squeeze the ball in to the corner not easy the reason we didn’t make the playoffs was the schoolboy defending in a spell where we were giving 2 or 3 goals away, if we hadn’t had those injuries to innis and Famewo I think we would have got automatic promotion with hull.and ultimately a manager can only pick the team , once their out there it’s down to them,so some of the players will have to have a long look at themselves instead of laying the blame at bowyers feet.
I knew keepers were some of the biggest players but I didn't realise they were that tall!
A 6' 3" 'keeper with their arms above their head is about 8'. Given they are reasonably mobile, if they dive the right way from the middle of the goal, they will easily cover the 12' from where they're standing to the post. So, actually, you don't have much of a gap to get through if they do go the right way, you've got to either get the ball there faster than they can dive or put it too high for them to reach - from the centre of the goal to the top corner is √(12^2 + 8^2) = √208 = just over 14', so aiming for the top corner gives you the best chance of the 'keeper not reaching it but a greater chance, I guess, of missing the actual goal or everyone would always aim there.
So, even though he doesn't seem know what a paragraph is, @Davo53's analysis is reasonably accurate and certainly better than those mocking him.
AA what you say is of course correct, but it's nothing like what Davo53 said, which was - "The goal is 24 feet across, if the keeper just lies down and stretches his arms out that leaves you approximately 3 foot to squeeze the ball in to the corner".
Obviously, I'm yet to see a keeper attempt to stop a penalty being scored by attempting this.
I can’t believe some of the comments on here about lee bowyer and how bad he was and should of got rid sooner etc etc. Yet 2 years ago at Wembley he was our hero,and the best thing since sliced bread.we all know about southall and all the other dickheads trying to jump on the bandwagon , the wage cap then on top of all this he and Steve gallen scowled around lower league clubs and trying to get youngsters on loan. Despite all these setbacks they put a descent squad together.A lot of people on here are going on about missed penalties as the outcome of our season,penalties are far from easy when you think about the goal is 24 feet across if the keeper just lies down and stretches his arms out that leaves you approximately 3 foot to squeeze the ball in to the corner not easy the reason we didn’t make the playoffs was the schoolboy defending in a spell where we were giving 2 or 3 goals away, if we hadn’t had those injuries to innis and Famewo I think we would have got automatic promotion with hull.and ultimately a manager can only pick the team , once their out there it’s down to them,so some of the players will have to have a long look at themselves instead of laying the blame at bowyers feet.
I knew keepers were some of the biggest players but I didn't realise they were that tall!
A 6' 3" 'keeper with their arms above their head is about 8'. Given they are reasonably mobile, if they dive the right way from the middle of the goal, they will easily cover the 12' from where they're standing to the post. So, actually, you don't have much of a gap to get through if they do go the right way, you've got to either get the ball there faster than they can dive or put it too high for them to reach - from the centre of the goal to the top corner is √(12^2 + 8^2) = √208 = just over 14', so aiming for the top corner gives you the best chance of the 'keeper not reaching it but a greater chance, I guess, of missing the actual goal or everyone would always aim there.
So, even though he doesn't seem know what a paragraph is, @Davo53's analysis is reasonably accurate and certainly better than those mocking him.
Not really, he said a goalkeeper laying down is 18 foot wide.
He clearly means the gap between the goalie and the post if the goalie dives the right way.
Thank you very much addicks addict that’s exactly what I was trying to explain, if the keeper goes the right way he almost reaches the post and if the ball is anything from 2foot to 5 foot off the ground there’s a good chance he will save it as seen with the penalties taken by Schwartz and stockley both hit with power but not close enough to the post in that 3 foot space wether it be a high or low penalty. The whole debate was because people were saying the missed penalties cost us the playoff spot, and I was trying to point out taking penalties is far from easy as people who have taken them will know. That’s why the majority of players shy away from them and leave it to the 1or2 who have the confidence to take them .........
I was one player who always left it to others until one match, we won a penalty after our regular penalty taker had gone off injured - and I was volunteered to take it.
I stepped up and slotted it inside the post, keeper going the wrong way. Confidence building I took the next 4 pens and scored each time. Easy this penalty lark, isn't it?
Next time I stepped up, keeper guessed the right way. We lost 2-1. I never took another penalty again. My manager nominated somebody else! ha ha
I must apologise then cafcfan1990,coveredend, and iaitch ,for getting it wrong. After reading it all again can now see my problem lies with thenewbie, banter I love piss taking no.by the way cafcfan1990 what team did you keep goal for.
A nice story oggyred thanks for that.I also used to take penalties for eltham hill on Sunday mornings the older ones wiil remember them playing at Harrow meadow Greenwich boroughs old ground and I used to shit myself incase I missed because I found it embarrassing and that was in front of only a few hundred spectators, and passed the penalty taking on to Colin Payne or dougie Francis who played for dartford and carshalton respectively . Penalties are definitely an art.
Comments
A keeper with arms stretched is perhaps 8 ft x 2 ft, perhaps 16 sq ft.
This leaves around 176 sq ft to "squeeze the ball in the net", not 3 foot, by my very rough calculation.
(Unless the keeper is approximately 19ft tall and 7 foot wide).
... Just saying.
Of course, if you take the position that dressing room unrest during this period is just hearsay then your position makes sense. Nothing will be achieved by going through incidents I am confident happened. Some have been reported on here from reliable posters and some haven't been reported at all. I think some posters have misinterpreted my position. And that was, is, not to hate Bowyer, but to realise that for his sake and ours he had to leave if we were going to have any chance of promotion with the squad we had. Sadly, for us, it happened too late. But we got a total of points that would be Play Offs most seasons.
I may be wrong, but I won't shy away from saying what I think is true, whether that be concerns about Southall when that was an unpopular position (that was the case at one point) and being early to the party with concerns about Bowyer. Of course we remember the times we believe we were proved right more than when we were proved wrong, but for me, saying what you see is what a forum should be about. Right or wrong (like you are on this one)
So, even though he doesn't seem know what a paragraph is, @Davo53's analysis is reasonably accurate and certainly better than those mocking him.
That makes the goalie 18 feet long.
"The goal is 24 feet across, if the keeper just lies down and stretches his arms out that leaves you approximately 3 foot to squeeze the ball in to the corner".
Obviously, I'm yet to see a keeper attempt to stop a penalty being scored by attempting this.
I was one player who always left it to others until one match, we won a penalty after our regular penalty taker had gone off injured - and I was volunteered to take it.
I stepped up and slotted it inside the post, keeper going the wrong way.
Confidence building I took the next 4 pens and scored each time. Easy this penalty lark, isn't it?
Next time I stepped up, keeper guessed the right way.
We lost 2-1. I never took another penalty again. My manager nominated somebody else! ha ha