Do you find it hard to believe that someone was wrongly accused of racism or are you suggesting WIWLB did do something racist?
comes across quite shitty imo
Maybe not the other side to it so much as knowing how it actually went down. I suppose we have to take the narrator at his word and it does seem like the steward may have reacted based on historical associations rather than the reality of the situation, but if I started on about microaggressions we'd be here all day so
Historical associations ? I have never seen the steward in my life, and don't eves sit in this block, went there for the second half so the kids can see their grandad.
For the record i will swear on my kids life that the events are 100 per cent true, and i would welcome a sit down with the club, steward, his employee to get the facts put in place. The stigma that someone can call you racist when you haven't done nothing doesn't sit right with me, and the proof was in your initial response.
I mean that the steward probably has been racially abused by fans quite often down the years, and saw something in your manner that triggered that response. Not necessarily your fault, but in these cases I think it's best to back down. It's a sad situation really. He probably has something not dissimilar to PTSD. Arguably that would make him unsuited to stewarding, but equally, everyone has the right to employment and it's probably something he's done for a while. As I say, in such cases, back down and avoid trouble and nobody gets yelled at.
It's a funny old world innit?
At one end - the assumption is that the steward probably has something similar to PTSD.......and at the other (the end that I am probably more closely aligned)......the assumption is that the steward is probably a twat.
What I will say is that Paul Hardcastle would not be nearly as famous if he had chosen to pen his opus around the traumas of being a footy steward rather than a teenager in the Vietnam war.
Do you find it hard to believe that someone was wrongly accused of racism or are you suggesting WIWLB did do something racist?
comes across quite shitty imo
It’s not about disbelieving, it’s just quite difficult to follow the story at times. Also when you open with “I’ve been insulted all my life”, while that may be true and it’s entirely possible that every single time has been completely wrong and unjustified, that statement needs more context. I also didn’t understand the toilet bit - “In which I took her”. Was he in the toilet or on the stairs? Because if he was in the ladies, then that changes the story slightly. Again, it sounds completely unacceptable and I’m sure the steward was in the wrong, no excuse for racism etc. but it’s not unreasonable to ask for the full, coherent story and that has nothing to do with whether you believe him or not.
you're right but, as I said imo, Leuth was being shitty in implying that there was something to it rather than asking for a more coherent explanation.
No, I'm just saying that I'd rather know exactly what happened from all parties before making a judgement, and while it does sound like WIWLB was the wronged party, I'd still want to know what triggered the response, given the slightly garbled telling
That seems perfectly reasonable approach, but what you did was to speculate about why someone might have behaved as they did and proceeded to advise on what WIWLB should have done.
Good luck with getting it sorted WIWLB. For the record, I know it's not what you'll wan't to hear, but I'd advise lurking outside the ladies in future rather than arranging to meet on the stairs.
Can't wait to see what he gets accused of next home game!
Being a sex pest by a woman who has suffered years of sex pestery, so she will be perfectly within her right to level the accusation at every man she see's fit
Do you find it hard to believe that someone was wrongly accused of racism or are you suggesting WIWLB did do something racist?
comes across quite shitty imo
Maybe not the other side to it so much as knowing how it actually went down. I suppose we have to take the narrator at his word and it does seem like the steward may have reacted based on historical associations rather than the reality of the situation, but if I started on about microaggressions we'd be here all day so
Historical associations ? I have never seen the steward in my life, and don't eves sit in this block, went there for the second half so the kids can see their grandad.
For the record i will swear on my kids life that the events are 100 per cent true, and i would welcome a sit down with the club, steward, his employee to get the facts put in place. The stigma that someone can call you racist when you haven't done nothing doesn't sit right with me, and the proof was in your initial response.
I mean that the steward probably has been racially abused by fans quite often down the years, and saw something in your manner that triggered that response. Not necessarily your fault, but in these cases I think it's best to back down. It's a sad situation really. He probably has something not dissimilar to PTSD. Arguably that would make him unsuited to stewarding, but equally, everyone has the right to employment and it's probably something he's done for a while. As I say, in such cases, back down and avoid trouble and nobody gets yelled at.
What a load of bollox. You have absolutely no idea wheather the steward has ever been racially abused or not. You are inventing things to try and prove something that has probably never happened.
I think there is something that causes some people to react in this way as I have seen and witnessed similar. I can think of two reasonably recent examples I have witnessed and it seems to me it was because the accuser was feeling the need to be unnecessarily defensive causing them to misread the intentions or tone of the other person.
What can happen is you see them then make an unreasonable accusation. Now if somebody is going to call you a racist when you are not, or is saying you are threatening them when you are not, you react defensively yourself which is natural and generally escalates the situation.
It can be on the phone when you may be complaining about something they know they are in the wrong about where you are told not to talk to me like that, when you are not talking to them like that. This example is long so pleased don't read if you are in a hurry but it illustrates the point.
My football co-manager got a six month ban and a big fine because the ref said he was threatening and I will swear on my life he wasn't. What had happened is the ref made what our players thought was a glaring error missing a penalty for us just before half time and got a comment as he blew the whistle. Our player who made it walked away and he was screaming for him to come back. You had to be there but the ref was going into one.
I called to the ref that I would get him and bring him back to calm things down and spoke to the player sternly and told him not to say anything to the ref and take his punishment. As I was turning another player was by the ref. As we got closer I could hear the ref say he would book him if he did not go away then immediately booked him and our player told him the shove it where the sun doesn't shine - those were his words. The ref sent him off shaking with rage. I was angry with our player and shouted at him to leave the ref alone and the player I retrieved took his booking quietly.
The ref had lost it and we can't have any pride in the behaviour of our lads. As I was returning to the players, my co-manager was heading for the ref. He is a lovely guy and not threatening. I knew what the ref was raging and told him not to go near him. He said he just wanted to find out what our player had said to him so we could deal with it. When he got there the ref told him not to threaten him which was absolutely not his intention. Because he was wrongly accused he argued he wasn't trying to threaten him.
After the game he was reported by the ref to the Herts FA and we had to go to a hearing where you basically have no chance. He was punished because our players unsettled the ref and he completely lost it. That was our fault, but my co-manager was angry with the players not the ref and got hammered for it. The point is that some people get their emotions in a heightened state then make unfair accusations. I say some, but you encounter them every now and again. The steward may have had a set to with other fans and was taking that out on you. These people should not be doing the jobs they do. The players were the ones out of order.
Do you find it hard to believe that someone was wrongly accused of racism or are you suggesting WIWLB did do something racist?
comes across quite shitty imo
Maybe not the other side to it so much as knowing how it actually went down. I suppose we have to take the narrator at his word and it does seem like the steward may have reacted based on historical associations rather than the reality of the situation, but if I started on about microaggressions we'd be here all day so
Historical associations ? I have never seen the steward in my life, and don't eves sit in this block, went there for the second half so the kids can see their grandad.
For the record i will swear on my kids life that the events are 100 per cent true, and i would welcome a sit down with the club, steward, his employee to get the facts put in place. The stigma that someone can call you racist when you haven't done nothing doesn't sit right with me, and the proof was in your initial response.
I mean that the steward probably has been racially abused by fans quite often down the years, and saw something in your manner that triggered that response. Not necessarily your fault, but in these cases I think it's best to back down. It's a sad situation really. He probably has something not dissimilar to PTSD. Arguably that would make him unsuited to stewarding, but equally, everyone has the right to employment and it's probably something he's done for a while. As I say, in such cases, back down and avoid trouble and nobody gets yelled at.
What a load of bollox. You have absolutely no idea wheather the steward has ever been racially abused or not. You are inventing things to try and prove something that has probably never happened.
What a load of bollox. You have absolutely no idea wheather the steward has ever been racially abused or not. You are inventing things to try and prove something that has probably never happened.
Do you find it hard to believe that someone was wrongly accused of racism or are you suggesting WIWLB did do something racist?
comes across quite shitty imo
Maybe not the other side to it so much as knowing how it actually went down. I suppose we have to take the narrator at his word and it does seem like the steward may have reacted based on historical associations rather than the reality of the situation, but if I started on about microaggressions we'd be here all day so
Historical associations ? I have never seen the steward in my life, and don't eves sit in this block, went there for the second half so the kids can see their grandad.
For the record i will swear on my kids life that the events are 100 per cent true, and i would welcome a sit down with the club, steward, his employee to get the facts put in place. The stigma that someone can call you racist when you haven't done nothing doesn't sit right with me, and the proof was in your initial response.
I mean that the steward probably has been racially abused by fans quite often down the years, and saw something in your manner that triggered that response. Not necessarily your fault, but in these cases I think it's best to back down. It's a sad situation really. He probably has something not dissimilar to PTSD. Arguably that would make him unsuited to stewarding, but equally, everyone has the right to employment and it's probably something he's done for a while. As I say, in such cases, back down and avoid trouble and nobody gets yelled at.
Or he could have just been a twat. I mean that's also possible.
Do you find it hard to believe that someone was wrongly accused of racism or are you suggesting WIWLB did do something racist?
comes across quite shitty imo
Maybe not the other side to it so much as knowing how it actually went down. I suppose we have to take the narrator at his word and it does seem like the steward may have reacted based on historical associations rather than the reality of the situation, but if I started on about microaggressions we'd be here all day so
Historical associations ? I have never seen the steward in my life, and don't eves sit in this block, went there for the second half so the kids can see their grandad.
For the record i will swear on my kids life that the events are 100 per cent true, and i would welcome a sit down with the club, steward, his employee to get the facts put in place. The stigma that someone can call you racist when you haven't done nothing doesn't sit right with me, and the proof was in your initial response.
I mean that the steward probably has been racially abused by fans quite often down the years, and saw something in your manner that triggered that response. Not necessarily your fault, but in these cases I think it's best to back down. It's a sad situation really. He probably has something not dissimilar to PTSD. Arguably that would make him unsuited to stewarding, but equally, everyone has the right to employment and it's probably something he's done for a while. As I say, in such cases, back down and avoid trouble and nobody gets yelled at.
What a load of bollox. You have absolutely no idea wheather the steward has ever been racially abused or not. You are inventing things to try and prove something that has probably never happened.
Do you find it hard to believe that someone was wrongly accused of racism or are you suggesting WIWLB did do something racist?
comes across quite shitty imo
Maybe not the other side to it so much as knowing how it actually went down. I suppose we have to take the narrator at his word and it does seem like the steward may have reacted based on historical associations rather than the reality of the situation, but if I started on about microaggressions we'd be here all day so
Historical associations ? I have never seen the steward in my life, and don't eves sit in this block, went there for the second half so the kids can see their grandad.
For the record i will swear on my kids life that the events are 100 per cent true, and i would welcome a sit down with the club, steward, his employee to get the facts put in place. The stigma that someone can call you racist when you haven't done nothing doesn't sit right with me, and the proof was in your initial response.
I mean that the steward probably has been racially abused by fans quite often down the years, and saw something in your manner that triggered that response. Not necessarily your fault, but in these cases I think it's best to back down. It's a sad situation really. He probably has something not dissimilar to PTSD. Arguably that would make him unsuited to stewarding, but equally, everyone has the right to employment and it's probably something he's done for a while. As I say, in such cases, back down and avoid trouble and nobody gets yelled at.
What a load of bollox. You have absolutely no idea wheather the steward has ever been racially abused or not. You are inventing things to try and prove something that has probably never happened.
Do you find it hard to believe that someone was wrongly accused of racism or are you suggesting WIWLB did do something racist?
comes across quite shitty imo
Maybe not the other side to it so much as knowing how it actually went down. I suppose we have to take the narrator at his word and it does seem like the steward may have reacted based on historical associations rather than the reality of the situation, but if I started on about microaggressions we'd be here all day so
Historical associations ? I have never seen the steward in my life, and don't eves sit in this block, went there for the second half so the kids can see their grandad.
For the record i will swear on my kids life that the events are 100 per cent true, and i would welcome a sit down with the club, steward, his employee to get the facts put in place. The stigma that someone can call you racist when you haven't done nothing doesn't sit right with me, and the proof was in your initial response.
I mean that the steward probably has been racially abused by fans quite often down the years, and saw something in your manner that triggered that response. Not necessarily your fault, but in these cases I think it's best to back down. It's a sad situation really. He probably has something not dissimilar to PTSD. Arguably that would make him unsuited to stewarding, but equally, everyone has the right to employment and it's probably something he's done for a while. As I say, in such cases, back down and avoid trouble and nobody gets yelled at.
What a load of bollox. You have absolutely no idea wheather the steward has ever been racially abused or not. You are inventing things to try and prove something that has probably never happened.
If the steward is a black Briton, yes I do
Do you know the steward? If not, that is another load of cobblers you have posted. You're doing well.
Re Lyle Taylor: no race of people is a monolith, so of course there will be black folk that are against taking the knee, and it would be just as wrong for white football fans to compel Taylor to take the knee as it is for white football fans to compel others not to take the knee. But equally, just because one black person disapproves of the gesture, it does not invalidate it for the countless others who do find value in it.
I think one of the main issues is that there is a great uncomfortability in facing up to our own behaviours and attitudes and many people will want to shut out anything that suggests that they have maybe done something wrong, or at least could do something better. I can't remember who posted it, but we were having an interesting back-and-forth about the legitimacy of removing monuments that celebrated slave owners and colonialists, and at some point it came down to a sentence which was something like, "I won't allow myself to be made to feel guilty." I really appreciated that, because I think it got down to the heart of the matter. Even though no one (serious) is compelling people to feel personal guilt over colonialism and slavery, engaging with the topic openly and honestly is bringing up confused feelings in people (probably because of the fact that incredibly brutal acts were made in the recent history of the country we feel personally connected to). Therefore it felt to this person that an admission of 'the bad things' in our recent history felt so much like a personal judgement, that they would rather ignore the topic and shut down any process that sought to bring it to light. (I think the notion of personal guilt is more deeply felt by those of us who have been raised with a deep loyalty to the idea of our nation, and the history attached to it.)
I think a similar thing is happening with race. A large proportion of white British folk, I think, really want to see racism as something cut-and-dried: if you go around racially abusing people with racist language, and outwardly hating people because of their race, then that is racism (when in reality it's white supremacy.) And as long as you don't do that, you can't be lumped in with any discussions on the racism. But the modern discussion on racism is centred on experiences of non-white British folk, and the negative barriers that they have to navigate socially, in education, in healthcare, in the press, in the criminal justice system, most of which don't involve outward, overt white-supremacy. The uncomfortable feeling that we get when confronted with these discussions comes from the fact that we are not raised and conditioned by our society to fully consider these people's experiences. Therefore we are all capable of acting, without realising, in a way that incrementally can wear-down and harm people of other races, over the course of a lifetime.
Rather than confront this and be made to feel guilty by engaging with the discussions, a number of people want to change the nature of the protest into one that they feel more comfortable with. The irony being that having to change your behaviour as a black person in Britain, in order to not make your white compatriots uncomfortable is an example of one of the unreasonable implicit expectations placed on you by society, and one of the things that the protest seeks to change.
This excellent post was made on the politics board the other day. I'm going to leave it here without further comment, except that the third paragraph is the most relevant one in this case.
Re Lyle Taylor: no race of people is a monolith, so of course there will be black folk that are against taking the knee, and it would be just as wrong for white football fans to compel Taylor to take the knee as it is for white football fans to compel others not to take the knee. But equally, just because one black person disapproves of the gesture, it does not invalidate it for the countless others who do find value in it.
I think one of the main issues is that there is a great uncomfortability in facing up to our own behaviours and attitudes and many people will want to shut out anything that suggests that they have maybe done something wrong, or at least could do something better. I can't remember who posted it, but we were having an interesting back-and-forth about the legitimacy of removing monuments that celebrated slave owners and colonialists, and at some point it came down to a sentence which was something like, "I won't allow myself to be made to feel guilty." I really appreciated that, because I think it got down to the heart of the matter. Even though no one (serious) is compelling people to feel personal guilt over colonialism and slavery, engaging with the topic openly and honestly is bringing up confused feelings in people (probably because of the fact that incredibly brutal acts were made in the recent history of the country we feel personally connected to). Therefore it felt to this person that an admission of 'the bad things' in our recent history felt so much like a personal judgement, that they would rather ignore the topic and shut down any process that sought to bring it to light. (I think the notion of personal guilt is more deeply felt by those of us who have been raised with a deep loyalty to the idea of our nation, and the history attached to it.)
I think a similar thing is happening with race. A large proportion of white British folk, I think, really want to see racism as something cut-and-dried: if you go around racially abusing people with racist language, and outwardly hating people because of their race, then that is racism (when in reality it's white supremacy.) And as long as you don't do that, you can't be lumped in with any discussions on the racism. But the modern discussion on racism is centred on experiences of non-white British folk, and the negative barriers that they have to navigate socially, in education, in healthcare, in the press, in the criminal justice system, most of which don't involve outward, overt white-supremacy. The uncomfortable feeling that we get when confronted with these discussions comes from the fact that we are not raised and conditioned by our society to fully consider these people's experiences. Therefore we are all capable of acting, without realising, in a way that incrementally can wear-down and harm people of other races, over the course of a lifetime.
Rather than confront this and be made to feel guilty by engaging with the discussions, a number of people want to change the nature of the protest into one that they feel more comfortable with. The irony being that having to change your behaviour as a black person in Britain, in order to not make your white compatriots uncomfortable is an example of one of the unreasonable implicit expectations placed on you by society, and one of the things that the protest seeks to change.
This excellent post was made on the politics board the other day. I'm going to leave it here without further comment, except that the third paragraph is the most relevant one in this case.
You should probably stay on the politics board, there's a lot more of a warm reception for nonsense on there.
In all of my life I have been insulted by someone in all of my life, in which has left me lost for words. I took my daughter to the first game at the Valley on Saturday. In the second half we went to sit with her grandad in block A of the North Stand. Half way through the second half my daughter wanted to go to the toilet, in which I took her, and said i would wait on the steps for her. I wasn't at the top of the steps, it was a case of half way down, where I was trying to keep an eye on the game, at this point there was NO steward on the steps. Now i am going to break this down in what was said during this period.
After 30 seconds I hear this voice " MOVE", Steward. Sorry? I reply, "Move off the stairs" SD "Ok mate i am just waiting for my daughter who is in the toilet" WIWLB which is directly opposite me. "What you going to do hit me?" SD I was totally taken aback by this comment. "What are you talking about ?" WIWLB "You were going to hit me" SD "Get out of my face" SD
I was standing one side of the tunnel and he was on the other, by now i am totally dumbstruck at what i am hearing, where i take the guys number down. The steward goes to the top of the stairs and says "What is your problem ? is it because your team is not winning?"
"You are not for real, what are you talking about i am only waiting for my daughter".
With that my daughter who is 12 appears and the steward then comes back towards and says the following "your racist.. your nothing but a racist"
In this current climate to call someone racist is a very very statement. To say it to someone who has done nothing wrong and then in front of their child it is totally unacceptable.
We sort the head steward and told him what had happened, and whilst doing so the steward walked past and began a level of abuse to both my father who is 78 and myself again.
When my father asked when he was going to "punch him" the steward replied well his face looked like he was going to
He then asked what the F**k has it got to do with him
The senior steward then told him to move on apologised, however this steward just kept coming back, in the end other stewards had to push him away where he then began to shout at them to get there hands of him.
Yes it proved the man he was, but one thing I totally object are these outrageous accusations, in which I would just ignore, however being accused of threatening someone, getting in their face, but more alarmingly calling me a racist for no reason is not acceptable, but in front of my daughter is sickening, and left my daughter shaken.
If the intention of posting on here was to solicit advice, that's a good idea, because of the wide range of knowledge and experience of people who post here and can offer their helpful suggestions. In my experience (and I can only speak for myself - other will have had different experiences) informing the club that something has gone wrong, especially when associated with the suggestion of racism, will mean that the club will act well, and quickly. It's in their best interest too. So I would strongly suggest (as others already have) that you write down three things:
1. Write a clear summary of everything that happened, with all the relevant facts, in chronological order. 2. Make clear what went wrong. 3. Explain what you would like the club to do to solve it.
All three of those things are important.
The first is important, because you have to acknowledge what you did wrong. Because, it the club investigates, they're going to find out that you did do things wrong (e.g. you were in a part of the ground you weren't entitled to be in; you were blocking the stairs; you were asked to move, but didn't). It's far better to acknowledge these trivial infringements than to find the club investigates and comes down on the steward's side when his story is given.
The second is important, because you can detail, in brief, what went wrong. What's the one thing (or the few things) that you're actually complaining about. I would assume it's being called a racist; but is there anything on top of that, too?
The third is critical. It could save the club time, save you time or be used later to determine whether you are happy with the result. Be specific about what action the club needs to take to satisfy you. An apology? Confirmation that the steward has been sacked? Clearer signage telling people where they can and can't stand? Unless you tell them what you want them to do, they won't know where to start - or finish - the process. And, if you haven't decided what you want them to do, you won't know whether you should be happy with the solution. There is no guarantee that they will do anything you ask; but you should be specific about what you're asking them to do.
Last tip: sleep on it after you have written it, then read it in the morning. Sometimes it's better to leave sending a bit of writing until the next day, after you have read it.
In all of my life I have been insulted by someone in all of my life, in which has left me lost for words. I took my daughter to the first game at the Valley on Saturday. In the second half we went to sit with her grandad in block A of the North Stand. Half way through the second half my daughter wanted to go to the toilet, in which I took her, and said i would wait on the steps for her. I wasn't at the top of the steps, it was a case of half way down, where I was trying to keep an eye on the game, at this point there was NO steward on the steps. Now i am going to break this down in what was said during this period.
After 30 seconds I hear this voice " MOVE", Steward. Sorry? I reply, "Move off the stairs" SD "Ok mate i am just waiting for my daughter who is in the toilet" WIWLB which is directly opposite me. "What you going to do hit me?" SD I was totally taken aback by this comment. "What are you talking about ?" WIWLB "You were going to hit me" SD "Get out of my face" SD
I was standing one side of the tunnel and he was on the other, by now i am totally dumbstruck at what i am hearing, where i take the guys number down. The steward goes to the top of the stairs and says "What is your problem ? is it because your team is not winning?"
"You are not for real, what are you talking about i am only waiting for my daughter".
With that my daughter who is 12 appears and the steward then comes back towards and says the following "your racist.. your nothing but a racist"
In this current climate to call someone racist is a very very statement. To say it to someone who has done nothing wrong and then in front of their child it is totally unacceptable.
We sort the head steward and told him what had happened, and whilst doing so the steward walked past and began a level of abuse to both my father who is 78 and myself again.
When my father asked when he was going to "punch him" the steward replied well his face looked like he was going to
He then asked what the F**k has it got to do with him
The senior steward then told him to move on apologised, however this steward just kept coming back, in the end other stewards had to push him away where he then began to shout at them to get there hands of him.
Yes it proved the man he was, but one thing I totally object are these outrageous accusations, in which I would just ignore, however being accused of threatening someone, getting in their face, but more alarmingly calling me a racist for no reason is not acceptable, but in front of my daughter is sickening, and left my daughter shaken.
If the intention of posting on here was to solicit advice, that's a good idea, because of the wide range of knowledge and experience of people who post here and can offer their helpful suggestions. In my experience (and I can only speak for myself - other will have had different experiences) informing the club that something has gone wrong, especially when associated with the suggestion of racism, will mean that the club will act well, and quickly. It's in their best interest too. So I would strongly suggest (as others already have) that you write down three things:
1. Write a clear summary of everything that happened, with all the relevant facts, in chronological order. 2. Make clear what went wrong. 3. Explain what you would like the club to do to solve it.
All three of those things are important.
The first is important, because you have to acknowledge what you did wrong. Because, it the club investigates, they're going to find out that you did do things wrong (e.g. you were in a part of the ground you weren't entitled to be in; you were blocking the stairs; you were asked to move, but didn't). It's far better to acknowledge these trivial infringements than to find the club investigates and comes down on the steward's side when his story is given.
The second is important, because you can detail, in brief, what went wrong. What's the one thing (or the few things) that you're actually complaining about. I would assume it's being called a racist; but is there anything on top of that, too?
The third is critical. It could save the club time, save you time or be used later to determine whether you are happy with the result. Be specific about what action the club needs to take to satisfy you. An apology? Confirmation that the steward has been sacked? Clearer signage telling people where they can and can't stand? Unless you tell them what you want them to do, they won't know where to start - or finish - the process. And, if you haven't decided what you want them to do, you won't know whether you should be happy with the solution. There is no guarantee that they will do anything you ask; but you should be specific about what you're asking them to do.
Last tip: sleep on it after you have written it, then read it in the morning. Sometimes it's better to leave sending a bit of writing until the next day, after you have read it.
My advice would be to forget about it. The steward will deny your accusation and unless there are witnesses you won't get a satisfactory conclusion. He could even make some stuff up which could cause you problems. We all know you were not the one in the wrong and that is why you are angry and upset.
My advice would be to forget about it. The steward will deny your accusation and unless there are witnesses you won't get a satisfactory conclusion. He could even make some stuff up which could cause you problems. We all know you were not the one in the wrong and that is why you are angry and upset.
I don't think he should forget it. Just as actual racist behaviour needs to be addressed, so does this.
My advice would be to forget about it. The steward will deny your accusation and unless there are witnesses you won't get a satisfactory conclusion. He could even make some stuff up which could cause you problems. We all know you were not the one in the wrong and that is why you are angry and upset.
I disagree. If a Charlton fan has been unfairly treated by a steward, it will continue to happen, unless it's called out. And then it will happen to you. Or me. Or the OP's daughter...
My advice would be to forget about it. The steward will deny your accusation and unless there are witnesses you won't get a satisfactory conclusion. He could even make some stuff up which could cause you problems. We all know you were not the one in the wrong and that is why you are angry and upset.
No, follow it through with the club, in case someone comes across this steward on a future game and has a similar incident.
Well, even if he's new to stewarding and relatively young, he may have still had some bad experiences in a public-facing role. It may be that he's unsuited to stewarding due to an unstable temperament, but none of us are really going to have any idea of what was really going on in his head, which is why I'd want to hear his side of it. N.B. I really don't think you were being consciously racist and I'm not here to condemn you. We're all human beings who deserve empathy, even Huskaris
You could think about permanently setting up your phone to record audio. It doesn't cost much to back up the data and it could help you out if you're ever in this sort of situation again.
"Racist!" is the insult of choice nowadays by those with no imagination.
Pleased you've had a response from the Club already, I wondered why you looked so annoyed as you and your daughter left the West Stand office on Saturday.
My advice would be to forget about it. The steward will deny your accusation and unless there are witnesses you won't get a satisfactory conclusion. He could even make some stuff up which could cause you problems. We all know you were not the one in the wrong and that is why you are angry and upset.
I don't think he should forget it. Just as actual racist behaviour needs to be addressed, so does this.
Fair enough but in the example I gave, my co-manager got his fine increased when we appealed. I was a witness and the panel weren't interested in my account and tried to interpret words in my report differently to what I meant when writing them. I told them if anybody is going to know what I meant, it would be me. The only way the club would/could act against the steward is if he admitted he was in the wrong.
My advice would be to forget about it. The steward will deny your accusation and unless there are witnesses you won't get a satisfactory conclusion. He could even make some stuff up which could cause you problems. We all know you were not the one in the wrong and that is why you are angry and upset.
I don't think he should forget it. Just as actual racist behaviour needs to be addressed, so does this.
Fair enough but in the example I gave, my co-manager got his fine increased when we appealed. I was a witness and the panel weren't interested in my account and tried to interpret words in my report differently to what I meant when writing them. I told them if anybody is going to know what I meant, it would be me. The only way the club would/could act against the steward is if he admitted he was in the wrong.
Not necessarily, if the account is written clearly and OP can get his daughter to back him up/verify then it becomes a stronger case straight away. And even if nothing happens this time, if the steward is a perennial nobhead who tries this again then having this on record will certainly help to establish previous form, which could help in the long run.
I think that's good advice from @Chizz, although if you can I'd suggest getting someone else to read through it rather than you, as having been there you know what happened, so won't always pick up on places where your explanation is unclear or you've inadvertently left something out (eg "In this current climate to call someone racist is a very very statement" - there's obviously a word missing before statement; inflammatory, maybe?)
As far as the descriptions of your interactions with the steward it might be helpful to structure it a bit like the script of a film or play, and use one of the seating plan diagrams from the website to mark out where you were at different points in the conversation, as that will be easier to visualise than describing where you were.
eg Half way through the second half my daughter wanted to go to the toilet, in which I took her, and said i would wait on the steps for her. I wasn't at the top of the steps, it was a case of half way down (position A on the diagram), where I was trying to keep an eye on the game, at this point there was NO steward on the steps. After 30 seconds I hear this voice which I later discovered belong to Steward no1234
Steward no1234 (in posn1 on the diagram): " MOVE"
WIWLB: Sorry?
Steward no1234 (moving to posn 2): "Move off the stairs"
WIWLB: "Ok mate i am just waiting for my daughter who is in the toilet"
The toilet was directly opposite me at this point (position B ).
Steward no1234:"What you going to do hit me?"
I was totally taken aback by this comment.
WIWLB (moving to posn C )::"What are you talking about ?"
Steward no1234:"You were going to hit me"
Did something happen between these two comments in terms of movement?
Steward no1234:"Get out of my face"
From reading the description of events two things come to mind that anger me:
1) A steward acting inappropriately and being completely oblivious to the presence of a child.
2) False accusations of racism do so much harm for victims of genuine racist behaviour. People will be aware I have suffered and experienced genuine racist abuse (not at the Valley I may add - at a Millwall game) and false allegations do to genuine victims of racist abuse what false rape claims do to genuine victims of rape.
If proven he should be prosecuted for that in the same way I would expect other false allegations to be punished.
Do you find it hard to believe that someone was wrongly accused of racism or are you suggesting WIWLB did do something racist?
comes across quite shitty imo
Maybe not the other side to it so much as knowing how it actually went down. I suppose we have to take the narrator at his word and it does seem like the steward may have reacted based on historical associations rather than the reality of the situation, but if I started on about microaggressions we'd be here all day so
Historical associations ? I have never seen the steward in my life, and don't eves sit in this block, went there for the second half so the kids can see their grandad.
For the record i will swear on my kids life that the events are 100 per cent true, and i would welcome a sit down with the club, steward, his employee to get the facts put in place. The stigma that someone can call you racist when you haven't done nothing doesn't sit right with me, and the proof was in your initial response.
I mean that the steward probably has been racially abused by fans quite often down the years, and saw something in your manner that triggered that response. Not necessarily your fault, but in these cases I think it's best to back down. It's a sad situation really. He probably has something not dissimilar to PTSD. Arguably that would make him unsuited to stewarding, but equally, everyone has the right to employment and it's probably something he's done for a while. As I say, in such cases, back down and avoid trouble and nobody gets yelled at.
Did you completely overlook the part in his post where he says he was already shouted at and that was before he'd even met or interacted with the steward.
Why should he back down? Would you if someone shouted at you for no reason?
Do you find it hard to believe that someone was wrongly accused of racism or are you suggesting WIWLB did do something racist?
comes across quite shitty imo
Maybe not the other side to it so much as knowing how it actually went down. I suppose we have to take the narrator at his word and it does seem like the steward may have reacted based on historical associations rather than the reality of the situation, but if I started on about microaggressions we'd be here all day so
Historical associations ? I have never seen the steward in my life, and don't eves sit in this block, went there for the second half so the kids can see their grandad.
For the record i will swear on my kids life that the events are 100 per cent true, and i would welcome a sit down with the club, steward, his employee to get the facts put in place. The stigma that someone can call you racist when you haven't done nothing doesn't sit right with me, and the proof was in your initial response.
I mean that the steward probably has been racially abused by fans quite often down the years, and saw something in your manner that triggered that response. Not necessarily your fault, but in these cases I think it's best to back down. It's a sad situation really. He probably has something not dissimilar to PTSD. Arguably that would make him unsuited to stewarding, but equally, everyone has the right to employment and it's probably something he's done for a while. As I say, in such cases, back down and avoid trouble and nobody gets yelled at.
Did you completely overlook the part in his post where he says he was already shouted at and that was before he'd even met or interacted with the steward.
Why should he back down? Would you if someone shouted at you for no reason?
He was standing in the wrong place. He should have walked back down the stairs: backing down is literally what he should have done.
I had a little difference of opinion with one of ‘offialdom’s little helpers on Saturday as well who may well have been doing his job but went about it on the wrong manner and picking on somebody my age for what I’m guessing was the motivation was probably always going to be waste of time anyway - maybe he realised that as soon as he opened his mouth and I questioned him and it all started to go south from there. Maybe a little bit of coaching on manners for them and how to approach and deal with people by whoever it is that trains the staff behind the counters (and does a pretty good job of it IMO) might lead to a better experience all around. Given my experience I don’t like the sound of the original post claims of somebody being called a ‘racist’ because they basically didn’t take kindly to being rudely spoken to if it’s going to be a common occurrence of approaching fans like that.
Comments
At one end - the assumption is that the steward probably has something similar to PTSD.......and at the other (the end that I am probably more closely aligned)......the assumption is that the steward is probably a twat.
What I will say is that Paul Hardcastle would not be nearly as famous if he had chosen to pen his opus around the traumas of being a footy steward rather than a teenager in the Vietnam war.
You have absolutely no idea wheather the steward has ever been racially abused or not.
You are inventing things to try and prove something that has probably never happened.
What can happen is you see them then make an unreasonable accusation. Now if somebody is going to call you a racist when you are not, or is saying you are threatening them when you are not, you react defensively yourself which is natural and generally escalates the situation.
It can be on the phone when you may be complaining about something they know they are in the wrong about where you are told not to talk to me like that, when you are not talking to them like that. This example is long so pleased don't read if you are in a hurry but it illustrates the point.
My football co-manager got a six month ban and a big fine because the ref said he was threatening and I will swear on my life he wasn't. What had happened is the ref made what our players thought was a glaring error missing a penalty for us just before half time and got a comment as he blew the whistle. Our player who made it walked away and he was screaming for him to come back. You had to be there but the ref was going into one.
I called to the ref that I would get him and bring him back to calm things down and spoke to the player sternly and told him not to say anything to the ref and take his punishment. As I was turning another player was by the ref. As we got closer I could hear the ref say he would book him if he did not go away then immediately booked him and our player told him the shove it where the sun doesn't shine - those were his words. The ref sent him off shaking with rage. I was angry with our player and shouted at him to leave the ref alone and the player I retrieved took his booking quietly.
The ref had lost it and we can't have any pride in the behaviour of our lads. As I was returning to the players, my co-manager was heading for the ref. He is a lovely guy and not threatening. I knew what the ref was raging and told him not to go near him. He said he just wanted to find out what our player had said to him so we could deal with it. When he got there the ref told him not to threaten him which was absolutely not his intention. Because he was wrongly accused he argued he wasn't trying to threaten him.
After the game he was reported by the ref to the Herts FA and we had to go to a hearing where you basically have no chance. He was punished because our players unsettled the ref and he completely lost it. That was our fault, but my co-manager was angry with the players not the ref and got hammered for it. The point is that some people get their emotions in a heightened state then make unfair accusations. I say some, but you encounter them every now and again. The steward may have had a set to with other fans and was taking that out on you. These people should not be doing the jobs they do. The players were the ones out of order.
You're doing well.
1. Write a clear summary of everything that happened, with all the relevant facts, in chronological order.
2. Make clear what went wrong.
3. Explain what you would like the club to do to solve it.
All three of those things are important.
The first is important, because you have to acknowledge what you did wrong. Because, it the club investigates, they're going to find out that you did do things wrong (e.g. you were in a part of the ground you weren't entitled to be in; you were blocking the stairs; you were asked to move, but didn't). It's far better to acknowledge these trivial infringements than to find the club investigates and comes down on the steward's side when his story is given.
The second is important, because you can detail, in brief, what went wrong. What's the one thing (or the few things) that you're actually complaining about. I would assume it's being called a racist; but is there anything on top of that, too?
The third is critical. It could save the club time, save you time or be used later to determine whether you are happy with the result. Be specific about what action the club needs to take to satisfy you. An apology? Confirmation that the steward has been sacked? Clearer signage telling people where they can and can't stand? Unless you tell them what you want them to do, they won't know where to start - or finish - the process. And, if you haven't decided what you want them to do, you won't know whether you should be happy with the solution. There is no guarantee that they will do anything you ask; but you should be specific about what you're asking them to do.
Last tip: sleep on it after you have written it, then read it in the morning. Sometimes it's better to leave sending a bit of writing until the next day, after you have read it.
Pleased you've had a response from the Club already, I wondered why you looked so annoyed as you and your daughter left the West Stand office on Saturday.
Not necessarily, if the account is written clearly and OP can get his daughter to back him up/verify then it becomes a stronger case straight away. And even if nothing happens this time, if the steward is a perennial nobhead who tries this again then having this on record will certainly help to establish previous form, which could help in the long run.
Steward no1234 (in posn1 on the diagram): " MOVE"
WIWLB: Sorry?
Steward no1234 (moving to posn 2): "Move off the stairs"
WIWLB: "Ok mate i am just waiting for my daughter who is in the toilet"
The toilet was directly opposite me at this point (position B ).
Steward no1234:"What you going to do hit me?"
I was totally taken aback by this comment.
WIWLB (moving to posn C )::"What are you talking about ?"
Steward no1234:"You were going to hit me"
Did something happen between these two comments in terms of movement?
Steward no1234:"Get out of my face"
1) A steward acting inappropriately and being completely oblivious to the presence of a child.
If proven he should be prosecuted for that in the same way I would expect other false allegations to be punished.
Why should he back down? Would you if someone shouted at you for no reason?