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Being called a racist on Saturday.

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  • jacob_CAFC
    jacob_CAFC Posts: 2,063
    Valiantphil said:
    Sadly, racism will continue to exist in football/society because false allegations by non-white people only go to reinforce the negative stereotype that white racists desire. 
    I don’t have the solution, but this occurred to me while watching the bus/train ticket inspectors on TV. 
    As soon as a white inspector asks a non-white for a ticket, you can start the stopwatch. 
    Bad times. 
    Racism has no place in our society, let alone football, so it was great to hear the old chants for the mighty Leaburn at the Wendies game. 
    I hope CAFC is a beacon of inclusivity. 
    Sounds mightily like you're blaming POCs for racism? Weird comment 
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,219
    JoshrewCAFC said:
    Leuth said:
    WhenIwasLittleBoy said:
    Leuth said:
    cafcdave123 said:
    Leuth said:
    Kinda want the other side to this story
    Why?

    Do you find it hard to believe that someone was wrongly accused of racism or are you suggesting WIWLB did do something racist?


    comes across quite shitty imo 
    Maybe not the other side to it so much as knowing how it actually went down. I suppose we have to take the narrator at his word and it does seem like the steward may have reacted based on historical associations rather than the reality of the situation, but if I started on about microaggressions we'd be here all day so
    Historical associations ? I have never seen the steward in my life, and don't eves sit in this block, went there for the second half so the kids can see their grandad. 

    For the record i will swear on my kids life that the events are 100 per cent true, and i would welcome a sit down with the club, steward, his employee to get the facts put in place. The stigma that someone can call you racist when you haven't done nothing doesn't sit right with me, and the proof was in your initial response. 
    I mean that the steward probably has been racially abused by fans quite often down the years, and saw something in your manner that triggered that response. Not necessarily your fault, but in these cases I think it's best to back down. It's a sad situation really. He probably has something not dissimilar to PTSD. Arguably that would make him unsuited to stewarding, but equally, everyone has the right to employment and it's probably something he's done for a while. As I say, in such cases, back down and avoid trouble and nobody gets yelled at. 
    I've really enjoyed catching up on this thread after a day's work. Highlight has to be Leuth wishing he had the other side of the story and proceeding to make it up himself. Comical.

    Also, I really do hope your last sentence isn't blaming the victim of this encounter? 
    Leuth has history for blaming victims of racism
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 51,989
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    Chizz said:
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    Chizz said:
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    Chizz said:
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    I had a little difference of opinion with one of ‘offialdom’s little helpers on Saturday as well who may well have been doing his job but went about it on the wrong manner and picking on somebody my age for what I’m guessing was the motivation was probably always going to be waste of time anyway - maybe he realised that as soon as he opened his mouth and I questioned him and it all started to go south from there. Maybe a little bit of coaching on manners for them and how to approach and deal with people by whoever it is that trains the staff behind the counters (and does a pretty good job of it IMO) might lead to a better experience all around. Given my experience I don’t like the sound of the original post claims of somebody being called a ‘racist’ because they basically didn’t take kindly to being rudely spoken to if it’s going to be a common occurrence of approaching fans like that.
    What were you doing wrong?
    Being a grey haired OAP and entering the ground with my over 65 season ticket is my guess but by the time he finally got around to offering to explain himself I’d had enough of him
    Let me ask the question in another way. What was your difference if opinion about? 
    His mode of operation for initialising dialogue when he’d leapt up from behind me and which doesn’t sound too unlike the one in the original post albeit there was none of that other BS in our exchanges. In my case, I’d expressed my displeasure and we exchanged Q and As a few times along the lines of me asking him to explain why he needed to see my ticket and him once telling me it was a ‘random’ check, I flashed my ST and ‘ID’ when he had then demanded to see that as well and moved on (straight to the bar) declining his offer at that point to delay me further end explain why he wanted to see my ticket.
    Sorry, I am really not being clear in my question.  I will have another go! You had a disagreement with a steward and it appears that it was less pleasant that it might have been and wasn't handled well by the steward.  But, what was it that you were you doing that initiated the conversation with a steward?  
    Nothing on my part initiated the exchange. I tapped my ST on the gate, it opened, I went through the turnstile gate, walked half a dozen steps or more to head for the bars and the first pint of the day and he leapt up from behind demanding to see my ticket…I asked him why and it went downhill from there
    It sounds to me like you entered on a concession S/T, so he wanted to check your ID, to ensure that you were entitled to do so.
    This was due to the many adults that were buying child tickets.
    It's been discussed on so many occasions and on the OS recently.
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,314
    JoshrewCAFC said:
    Leuth said:
    WhenIwasLittleBoy said:
    Leuth said:
    cafcdave123 said:
    Leuth said:
    Kinda want the other side to this story
    Why?

    Do you find it hard to believe that someone was wrongly accused of racism or are you suggesting WIWLB did do something racist?


    comes across quite shitty imo 
    Maybe not the other side to it so much as knowing how it actually went down. I suppose we have to take the narrator at his word and it does seem like the steward may have reacted based on historical associations rather than the reality of the situation, but if I started on about microaggressions we'd be here all day so
    Historical associations ? I have never seen the steward in my life, and don't eves sit in this block, went there for the second half so the kids can see their grandad. 

    For the record i will swear on my kids life that the events are 100 per cent true, and i would welcome a sit down with the club, steward, his employee to get the facts put in place. The stigma that someone can call you racist when you haven't done nothing doesn't sit right with me, and the proof was in your initial response. 
    I mean that the steward probably has been racially abused by fans quite often down the years, and saw something in your manner that triggered that response. Not necessarily your fault, but in these cases I think it's best to back down. It's a sad situation really. He probably has something not dissimilar to PTSD. Arguably that would make him unsuited to stewarding, but equally, everyone has the right to employment and it's probably something he's done for a while. As I say, in such cases, back down and avoid trouble and nobody gets yelled at. 
    I've really enjoyed catching up on this thread after a day's work. Highlight has to be Leuth wishing he had the other side of the story and proceeding to make it up himself. Comical.

    Also, I really do hope your last sentence isn't blaming the victim of this encounter? 
    Not blaming anyone. It was an unfortunate encounter. It feels like neither party was willing to back down, emotions flared up and here we are. It would be like if I bothered responding to Irving rather than turning the other cheek :)
  • soapy_jones
    soapy_jones Posts: 21,350
    I much prefer being called a racist on a weekday, it leaves the weekend free to be all woke and stuff!
  • PrincessFiona
    PrincessFiona Posts: 5,437

    And of course in the days of apartheid South Africa it was discrimination directed at the majority by a racist minority. 
    But the point remains that racism is usually more potent when it’s directed at a minority group.
    I was in a minority on all the occasions. 
  • letthegoodtimesroll
    letthegoodtimesroll Posts: 10,616
    Covered End said:
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    Chizz said:
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    Chizz said:
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    Chizz said:
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    I had a little difference of opinion with one of ‘offialdom’s little helpers on Saturday as well who may well have been doing his job but went about it on the wrong manner and picking on somebody my age for what I’m guessing was the motivation was probably always going to be waste of time anyway - maybe he realised that as soon as he opened his mouth and I questioned him and it all started to go south from there. Maybe a little bit of coaching on manners for them and how to approach and deal with people by whoever it is that trains the staff behind the counters (and does a pretty good job of it IMO) might lead to a better experience all around. Given my experience I don’t like the sound of the original post claims of somebody being called a ‘racist’ because they basically didn’t take kindly to being rudely spoken to if it’s going to be a common occurrence of approaching fans like that.
    What were you doing wrong?
    Being a grey haired OAP and entering the ground with my over 65 season ticket is my guess but by the time he finally got around to offering to explain himself I’d had enough of him
    Let me ask the question in another way. What was your difference if opinion about? 
    His mode of operation for initialising dialogue when he’d leapt up from behind me and which doesn’t sound too unlike the one in the original post albeit there was none of that other BS in our exchanges. In my case, I’d expressed my displeasure and we exchanged Q and As a few times along the lines of me asking him to explain why he needed to see my ticket and him once telling me it was a ‘random’ check, I flashed my ST and ‘ID’ when he had then demanded to see that as well and moved on (straight to the bar) declining his offer at that point to delay me further end explain why he wanted to see my ticket.
    Sorry, I am really not being clear in my question.  I will have another go! You had a disagreement with a steward and it appears that it was less pleasant that it might have been and wasn't handled well by the steward.  But, what was it that you were you doing that initiated the conversation with a steward?  
    Nothing on my part initiated the exchange. I tapped my ST on the gate, it opened, I went through the turnstile gate, walked half a dozen steps or more to head for the bars and the first pint of the day and he leapt up from behind demanding to see my ticket…I asked him why and it went downhill from there
    It sounds to me like you entered on a concession S/T, so he wanted to check your ID, to ensure that you were entitled to do so.
    This was due to the many adults that were buying child tickets.
    It's been discussed on so many occasions and on the OS recently.
    True but there are less aggressive/ less impolite ways of finding out. The law of averages supports that most Charlton season ticket holders are not cheating the system so the steward’s approach should reflect that.
  • RedChaser
    RedChaser Posts: 19,885
    oohaahmortimer said:
    I reckon letthegoodtimesroll looks so ridiculously young, dashing and handsome the steward could not believe he had an OAP season ticket , so just wanted to check there was no moodiness going on .
    I take it you haven’t been stopped yet then mate ? 😉
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,728
    edited August 2021
    What seems clear is letthegoodtimesroll was wrongly accused of being racist. He could have wrongly been accused of being threatening or whatever. It isn't nice and understandable he might want to take it further. It wasn't his fault and I know I will get pelters for saying so, but the thread is showing why it is in his interests to just shrug his shoulders and forget it. I'm saying it simply because I think it is the best advice for him. And that is how it is meant, no deeper meanings.
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  • RedChaser
    RedChaser Posts: 19,885
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    What seems clear is letthegoodtimesroll was wrongly accused of being racist. He could have wrongly been accused of being threatening or whatever. It isn't nice and understandable he might want to take it further. It wasn't his fault and I know I will get pelters for saying so, but the thread is showing why it is in his interests to just shrug his shoulders and forget it. I'm saying it simply because I think it is the best advice for him. And that is how it is meant, no deeper meanings.
    I thought it was WIWLB who was wrongly accused 🤷‍♂️
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 51,989
    He wasn't accused of anything.
  • PrincessFiona
    PrincessFiona Posts: 5,437
    edited August 2021
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    What seems clear is letthegoodtimesroll was wrongly accused of being racist. He could have wrongly been accused of being threatening or whatever. It isn't nice and understandable he might want to take it further. It wasn't his fault and I know I will get pelters for saying so, but the thread is showing why it is in his interests to just shrug his shoulders and forget it. I'm saying it simply because I think it is the best advice for him. And that is how it is meant, no deeper meanings.
    I disagree because it is wrong to call someone a racist when it there is no justification for it. In this case, apparently none whatsoever, nothing that could even remotely be misconstrued. I appreciate that it may not be in the same league as being racist (there are obviously different degrees of being racist), but anyone who does this needs to be be spoken to about the incident as it is unacceptable and for reasons other's have posted, does not help the overall situation
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,728
    Apologies
  • RedChaser
    RedChaser Posts: 19,885
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    Apologies
    No need to apologise Mutts just edit.
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,728
    Then the subsequent post looks wrong. I can apologise for getting a posters name wrong I think. 
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 51,989
    The thing that gets me is so many people offering opinions.
    None of us were there, so it's all just speculation and poor advice.
    Good advice is only possible when all the facts are known.
  • DA9
    DA9 Posts: 11,091
    Leuth said:
    WhenIwasLittleBoy said:
    Leuth said:
    cafcdave123 said:
    Leuth said:
    Kinda want the other side to this story
    Why?

    Do you find it hard to believe that someone was wrongly accused of racism or are you suggesting WIWLB did do something racist?


    comes across quite shitty imo 
    Maybe not the other side to it so much as knowing how it actually went down. I suppose we have to take the narrator at his word and it does seem like the steward may have reacted based on historical associations rather than the reality of the situation, but if I started on about microaggressions we'd be here all day so
    Historical associations ? I have never seen the steward in my life, and don't eves sit in this block, went there for the second half so the kids can see their grandad. 

    For the record i will swear on my kids life that the events are 100 per cent true, and i would welcome a sit down with the club, steward, his employee to get the facts put in place. The stigma that someone can call you racist when you haven't done nothing doesn't sit right with me, and the proof was in your initial response. 
    I mean that the steward probably has been racially abused by fans quite often down the years, and saw something in your manner that triggered that response. Not necessarily your fault, but in these cases I think it's best to back down. It's a sad situation really. He probably has something not dissimilar to PTSD. Arguably that would make him unsuited to stewarding, but equally, everyone has the right to employment and it's probably something he's done for a while. As I say, in such cases, back down and avoid trouble and nobody gets yelled at. 
    Back down?
    I really hope your trolling
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    Leuth said:
    blackpool72 said:
    Leuth said:
    WhenIwasLittleBoy said:
    Leuth said:
    cafcdave123 said:
    Leuth said:
    Kinda want the other side to this story
    Why?

    Do you find it hard to believe that someone was wrongly accused of racism or are you suggesting WIWLB did do something racist?


    comes across quite shitty imo 
    Maybe not the other side to it so much as knowing how it actually went down. I suppose we have to take the narrator at his word and it does seem like the steward may have reacted based on historical associations rather than the reality of the situation, but if I started on about microaggressions we'd be here all day so
    Historical associations ? I have never seen the steward in my life, and don't eves sit in this block, went there for the second half so the kids can see their grandad. 

    For the record i will swear on my kids life that the events are 100 per cent true, and i would welcome a sit down with the club, steward, his employee to get the facts put in place. The stigma that someone can call you racist when you haven't done nothing doesn't sit right with me, and the proof was in your initial response. 
    I mean that the steward probably has been racially abused by fans quite often down the years, and saw something in your manner that triggered that response. Not necessarily your fault, but in these cases I think it's best to back down. It's a sad situation really. He probably has something not dissimilar to PTSD. Arguably that would make him unsuited to stewarding, but equally, everyone has the right to employment and it's probably something he's done for a while. As I say, in such cases, back down and avoid trouble and nobody gets yelled at. 
    What a load of bollox. 
    You have absolutely no idea wheather the steward has ever been racially abused or not.
    You are inventing things to try and prove something that has probably never happened. 
    If the steward is a black Briton, yes I do
    Are you a black Briton? 
  • PrincessFiona
    PrincessFiona Posts: 5,437
    Which is why I said 'apparently'. I think it has been an interesting thread, even taking into account if the incident was as described.
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  • Wheresmeticket
    Wheresmeticket Posts: 17,304
    edited August 2021
    OK.  Sounds completely unacceptable and pursuing a formal complaint is absolutely the right thing to do.

    It's interesting that he immediately thought you were going to hit him.  I wonder what was going on with him that he thought that.
  • WhenIwasLittleBoy
    WhenIwasLittleBoy Posts: 5,430
    What still makes my blood boil is how dangerous this steward is. I know I done nothing wrong as he does, his reaction at the end confirmed this in front of his manager. However he IMO is more than capable of accusing someone of making a racist comment and you have to prove your innocence rather than prove you made the comment.It’s wrong
  • WhenIwasLittleBoy
    WhenIwasLittleBoy Posts: 5,430
    PrincessFiona said:
    Which is why I said 'apparently'. I think it has been an interesting thread, even taking into account if the incident was as described.
    I wish there was CCTV. 
  • Gribbo
    Gribbo Posts: 8,484
    Wheresmeticket? said:
    OK.  Sounds completely unacceptable and pursuing a formal complaint is absolutely the right thing to do.

    It's interesting that he immediately thought you were going to hit him.  I wonder what was going on with him that he thought that.
    Maybe the poor bloke is just part of the generation who has been continuously taught the notion that if a white person disagrees with you in any way, they're inherently racist and going to lump you?
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,314
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Leuth said:
    blackpool72 said:
    Leuth said:
    WhenIwasLittleBoy said:
    Leuth said:
    cafcdave123 said:
    Leuth said:
    Kinda want the other side to this story
    Why?

    Do you find it hard to believe that someone was wrongly accused of racism or are you suggesting WIWLB did do something racist?


    comes across quite shitty imo 
    Maybe not the other side to it so much as knowing how it actually went down. I suppose we have to take the narrator at his word and it does seem like the steward may have reacted based on historical associations rather than the reality of the situation, but if I started on about microaggressions we'd be here all day so
    Historical associations ? I have never seen the steward in my life, and don't eves sit in this block, went there for the second half so the kids can see their grandad. 

    For the record i will swear on my kids life that the events are 100 per cent true, and i would welcome a sit down with the club, steward, his employee to get the facts put in place. The stigma that someone can call you racist when you haven't done nothing doesn't sit right with me, and the proof was in your initial response. 
    I mean that the steward probably has been racially abused by fans quite often down the years, and saw something in your manner that triggered that response. Not necessarily your fault, but in these cases I think it's best to back down. It's a sad situation really. He probably has something not dissimilar to PTSD. Arguably that would make him unsuited to stewarding, but equally, everyone has the right to employment and it's probably something he's done for a while. As I say, in such cases, back down and avoid trouble and nobody gets yelled at. 
    What a load of bollox. 
    You have absolutely no idea wheather the steward has ever been racially abused or not.
    You are inventing things to try and prove something that has probably never happened. 
    If the steward is a black Briton, yes I do
    Are you a black Briton? 
    No, but it's worth talking with/reading/listening to members of a community before claiming it's unlikely they've ever been racially abused. Whether the antagonist here was genuinely mentally unwell or (as seems incredibly unlikely to me) lying through their teeth to cause drama (at work? in front of colleagues/witnesses?), I find it next to impossible that they've led a life free of racial abuse. The hairtrigger response to WIWLB standing his ground doesn't just happen. I regret claiming that they'd probably been racially abused by fans, and I regret asking for the other side to the story (although I only did so for wanting to know how the misunderstanding occurred) but in wider society the widespread experience of black Britons is fairly common abuse and that is simply factual. 
  • cafcdave123
    cafcdave123 Posts: 11,491
    Has it even been confirmed that he was black?
  • clb74
    clb74 Posts: 10,824
    WhenIwasLittleBoy said:
    PrincessFiona said:
    Which is why I said 'apparently'. I think it has been an interesting thread, even taking into account if the incident was as described.
    I wish there was CCTV. 
    Should be.
  • Wheresmeticket
    Wheresmeticket Posts: 17,304
    edited August 2021
    Gribbo said:
    Wheresmeticket? said:
    OK.  Sounds completely unacceptable and pursuing a formal complaint is absolutely the right thing to do.

    It's interesting that he immediately thought you were going to hit him.  I wonder what was going on with him that he thought that.
    Maybe the poor bloke is just part of the generation who has been continuously taught the notion that if a white person disagrees with you in any way, they're inherently racist and going to lump you?
    Possibly. Or WIWALB was more "assertive" than he thought he was and the guy felt threatened. Or someone had been racist or aggressive towards him just before the incident. Or he has a mental health problem. Or any one of an almost infinite number of scenarios. A formal complaint and investigation should get at least some semblance of a fair resolution.
  • PaddyP17
    PaddyP17 Posts: 13,035
    This thread is an absolute shitshow. I wish to cast no doubt on the OP, though I am generally inclined to think people don't tend to throw out accusations of racism without there being a valid reason.

    I would err on the side of mistaken identity, though. WIWLB wouldn't make this up either I would hope.

    Or, the steward could potentially have a mental health issue of some description that may manifest in a less-than-clear world view, or something.

    Some fairly meteoric takes though:

    - an early request to hear "the other side" of the story, followed by hypotheses that are a bit of a stretch with no further context (though admittedly possible);
    - "racism will continue to exist in football/society because [of] false allegations by non-white people" (seriously, what the hell is this);
    - "if someone calls you racist, you've won the argument";
    - someone white claiming they've been racially persecuted (and while they've said they were the minority on all occasions, I'd like them to elaborate as it's entirely possible it was indeed racism, particularly if abroad, but my default is that if you're in the UK then the actual practicable power behind racial epithets directed at white people is negligible); and
    - the omnipresent thinly veiled ad hominem and straw man from one poster, a true classic of their genre

    Hopefully this is resolved and we find out what's happened by way of official comms that are then faithfully reproduced here. I do hope that there is a full inquiry satisfactory to all parties, except for the one that's in the wrong.
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,314
    Princess Fiona lives in SA, which is its own colossal clusterfuck of race relations, tbf to her

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