I must admit I did find it a bit strange when all the takeover talk was taking place with various other parties being mentioned, then up pops TS out of nowhere to get the deal done and quite quickly.
That's a fair point.
Sandgaard popped out of nowhere because he was willing to meet Roland’s terms on the rent and was willing to buy the club without owning the assets
Sorry but I believed this involved a third party in ESI. There may be nothing in it but at what point did Dutchelet declare ESI were in default by either not abiding by their contract or defaulting on payments ? Which is the same thing. As I say there may be nothing in it but I think it's a fair point.
Didn't ESI have to pay a certain figure for the assets? Either way, Roland didn't have to declare ESI were in default, it was obvious they couldn't pay and they were selling the club to Sandgaard. What would Roland have had to gain by not negotiating with Sandgaard?
I don't think it's a fair point at all to be honest, it makes zero sense. What would Sandgaard gain?
I don't think the author declared that Sandgaard gained anything. His point was that Sandgaard appeared from nowhere and pretty dam quick, not knocking that intervention but if I remember correctly Sandgaard gained ownership due to the fact that those who allegedly owned ESI actually did not and as such their contract was to own the club wasn't worth the paper it was written on. Please correct me if I'm wrong cos there are people on here far more in the know than me and I am happy to be corrected .
ESI 1 (Southall/Nimer) owned the club and ESI 2 (Elliot/Farnell) were claiming ownership
Thanks Covered end, that jogged my memory, but back to the original post. No one suggested that Sandgaard stood to gain anything by his sudden appearance but it certainly suited one individual and that was Dutchelet, got rid of an eight million loss and gained half a million rent a year.
I must admit I did find it a bit strange when all the takeover talk was taking place with various other parties being mentioned, then up pops TS out of nowhere to get the deal done and quite quickly.
That's a fair point.
Sandgaard popped out of nowhere because he was willing to meet Roland’s terms on the rent and was willing to buy the club without owning the assets
Sorry but I believed this involved a third party in ESI. There may be nothing in it but at what point did Dutchelet declare ESI were in default by either not abiding by their contract or defaulting on payments ? Which is the same thing. As I say there may be nothing in it but I think it's a fair point.
Didn't ESI have to pay a certain figure for the assets? Either way, Roland didn't have to declare ESI were in default, it was obvious they couldn't pay and they were selling the club to Sandgaard. What would Roland have had to gain by not negotiating with Sandgaard?
I don't think it's a fair point at all to be honest, it makes zero sense. IWhat would Sandgaard gain?
RD needed to get the club back off ESI who were shafting it left right and centre, in return Thommy gets a cut when RD ultimately finds a buyer for the whole shebang.
But he's lost an absolute fortune. That cut would have to be pretty large to make it worthwhile, no? In which case Roland would have been better off selling it at a much-reduced price to begin with.
Maybe Thomas is a massive mug, he currently seems to be.
I must admit I did find it a bit strange when all the takeover talk was taking place with various other parties being mentioned, then up pops TS out of nowhere to get the deal done and quite quickly.
That's a fair point.
Sandgaard popped out of nowhere because he was willing to meet Roland’s terms on the rent and was willing to buy the club without owning the assets
Sorry but I believed this involved a third party in ESI. There may be nothing in it but at what point did Dutchelet declare ESI were in default by either not abiding by their contract or defaulting on payments ? Which is the same thing. As I say there may be nothing in it but I think it's a fair point.
Didn't ESI have to pay a certain figure for the assets? Either way, Roland didn't have to declare ESI were in default, it was obvious they couldn't pay and they were selling the club to Sandgaard. What would Roland have had to gain by not negotiating with Sandgaard?
I don't think it's a fair point at all to be honest, it makes zero sense. IWhat would Sandgaard gain?
RD needed to get the club back off ESI who were shafting it left right and centre, in return Thommy gets a cut when RD ultimately finds a buyer for the whole shebang.
But he's lost an absolute fortune. That cut would have to be pretty large to make it worthwhile, no? In which case Roland would have been better off selling it at a much-reduced price to begin with.
All this talk of TS spending £20million is laughable, he paid £1million and we had £400k in the bank. He took a loan of £300k. These are only the things we now know about.
what else has gone on?
We are in serious trouble by the sounds of things
Check our accounts and see how much the club loses each year. Who do you think covers those losses?
I must admit I did find it a bit strange when all the takeover talk was taking place with various other parties being mentioned, then up pops TS out of nowhere to get the deal done and quite quickly.
That's a fair point.
Sandgaard popped out of nowhere because he was willing to meet Roland’s terms on the rent and was willing to buy the club without owning the assets
Sorry but I believed this involved a third party in ESI. There may be nothing in it but at what point did Dutchelet declare ESI were in default by either not abiding by their contract or defaulting on payments ? Which is the same thing. As I say there may be nothing in it but I think it's a fair point.
Didn't ESI have to pay a certain figure for the assets? Either way, Roland didn't have to declare ESI were in default, it was obvious they couldn't pay and they were selling the club to Sandgaard. What would Roland have had to gain by not negotiating with Sandgaard?
I don't think it's a fair point at all to be honest, it makes zero sense. What would Sandgaard gain?
I don't think the author declared that Sandgaard gained anything. His point was that Sandgaard appeared from nowhere and pretty dam quick, not knocking that intervention but if I remember correctly Sandgaard gained ownership due to the fact that those who allegedly owned ESI actually did not and as such their contract was to own the club wasn't worth the paper it was written on. Please correct me if I'm wrong cos there are people on here far more in the know than me and I am happy to be corrected .
ESI 1 (Southall/Nimer) owned the club and ESI 2 (Elliot/Farnell) were claiming ownership
Thanks Covered end, that jogged my memory, but back to the original post. No one suggested that Sandgaard stood to gain anything by his sudden appearance but it certainly suited one individual and that was Dutchelet, got rid of an eight million loss and gained half a million rent a year.
That's obvious, we all know why Roland did what he did. Just struggling to see what was "strange" about the way Sandgaard popped up. It's been discussed and explained several times, easy to see why he was able to come in and take over so quickly.
I must admit I did find it a bit strange when all the takeover talk was taking place with various other parties being mentioned, then up pops TS out of nowhere to get the deal done and quite quickly.
That's a fair point.
Sandgaard popped out of nowhere because he was willing to meet Roland’s terms on the rent and was willing to buy the club without owning the assets
Sorry but I believed this involved a third party in ESI. There may be nothing in it but at what point did Dutchelet declare ESI were in default by either not abiding by their contract or defaulting on payments ? Which is the same thing. As I say there may be nothing in it but I think it's a fair point.
Didn't ESI have to pay a certain figure for the assets? Either way, Roland didn't have to declare ESI were in default, it was obvious they couldn't pay and they were selling the club to Sandgaard. What would Roland have had to gain by not negotiating with Sandgaard?
I don't think it's a fair point at all to be honest, it makes zero sense. IWhat would Sandgaard gain?
RD needed to get the club back off ESI who were shafting it left right and centre, in return Thommy gets a cut when RD ultimately finds a buyer for the whole shebang.
But he's lost an absolute fortune. That cut would have to be pretty large to make it worthwhile, no? In which case Roland would have been better off selling it at a much-reduced price to begin with.
Maybe Thomas is a massive mug, he currently seems to be.
No doubt. But there's very few people out there willing to take on a club that loses a load of money with the promise of a few quid towards his losses if things go badly.
All this talk of TS spending £20million is laughable, he paid £1million and we had £400k in the bank. He took a loan of £300k. These are only the things we now know about.
what else has gone on?
We are in serious trouble by the sounds of things
Check our accounts and see how much the club loses each year. Who do you think covers those losses?
I’ve seen the accounts. It just does not add up, there are far too many negative stories coming out of the club from multiple sources.
I must admit I did find it a bit strange when all the takeover talk was taking place with various other parties being mentioned, then up pops TS out of nowhere to get the deal done and quite quickly.
That's a fair point.
Sandgaard popped out of nowhere because he was willing to meet Roland’s terms on the rent and was willing to buy the club without owning the assets
Sorry but I believed this involved a third party in ESI. There may be nothing in it but at what point did Dutchelet declare ESI were in default by either not abiding by their contract or defaulting on payments ? Which is the same thing. As I say there may be nothing in it but I think it's a fair point.
Didn't ESI have to pay a certain figure for the assets? Either way, Roland didn't have to declare ESI were in default, it was obvious they couldn't pay and they were selling the club to Sandgaard. What would Roland have had to gain by not negotiating with Sandgaard?
I don't think it's a fair point at all to be honest, it makes zero sense. IWhat would Sandgaard gain?
RD needed to get the club back off ESI who were shafting it left right and centre, in return Thommy gets a cut when RD ultimately finds a buyer for the whole shebang.
But he's lost an absolute fortune. That cut would have to be pretty large to make it worthwhile, no? In which case Roland would have been better off selling it at a much-reduced price to begin with.
Maybe Thomas is a massive mug, he currently seems to be.
No doubt. But there's very few people out there willing to take on a club that loses a load of money with the promise of a few quid towards his losses if things go badly.
How about someone blinded by their own brilliance.
All this talk of TS spending £20million is laughable, he paid £1million and we had £400k in the bank. He took a loan of £300k. These are only the things we now know about.
what else has gone on?
We are in serious trouble by the sounds of things
Check our accounts and see how much the club loses each year. Who do you think covers those losses?
I’ve seen the accounts. It just does not add up, there are far too many negative stories coming out of the club from multiple sources.
I would love to be wrong.
But sadly there is no smoke without fire.
I think you’re confusing separate things. It’s undeniable how much Sandgaard has input / lent the club, it’s in the accounts. The negative stories of recent cost cutting etc could equally be true, but will still require Sandgaard to keep pumping money in regardless.
The main problem though is a separate one, just how badly run the club is as a whole. And most of that seems completely unrelated to the financials.
All this talk of TS spending £20million is laughable, he paid £1million and we had £400k in the bank. He took a loan of £300k. These are only the things we now know about.
what else has gone on?
We are in serious trouble by the sounds of things
Check our accounts and see how much the club loses each year. Who do you think covers those losses?
I’ve seen the accounts. It just does not add up, there are far too many negative stories coming out of the club from multiple sources.
I would love to be wrong.
But sadly there is no smoke without fire.
Out of interest how much do you think he’s lost then?
My views have not changed from what I was saying 6-12 months ago. I was slated by many for all of the below statement - I would guess half of it will now be accepted:
1) TS is a bit of a Wally running a football club. He’s not an idiot. He’s built a successful business in another field - but he doesn’t and never did know how to run a professional sports team. He was always going to be found out - and has indeed shown to be out of his depth. No conspiracy, no Roland link. He doesn’t know what he was doing and coupled with the apparent lack of funds and it’s the most dangerous situation we could have.
The above is why we are sinking on the pitch and that will ultimately dictate our commercial success off it
2) Roland wasn’t a Wally. Roland was a seemingly (I never met him) very unpleasant person. But I haven’t changed my view - he was a nasty piece of work who knew more about running a football club.
That knowledge translated into on field performance. Squad and recruitment wise (and standard of football) was head and shoulders clear of where we are now.
Neither option was perfect - but I would hazard a guess that if RD was still here and had maintained his distance from all of us to just support the team - we would have been better off than we are now.
Kin ell , just got to read the shit on here to remind yourself there's more fruit loops in this world than you'd care to imagine . We're a proper odd bunch
All this talk of TS spending £20million is laughable, he paid £1million and we had £400k in the bank. He took a loan of £300k. These are only the things we now know about.
what else has gone on?
We are in serious trouble by the sounds of things
Check our accounts and see how much the club loses each year. Who do you think covers those losses?
I’ve seen the accounts. It just does not add up, there are far too many negative stories coming out of the club from multiple sources.
I would love to be wrong.
But sadly there is no smoke without fire.
I think you’re confusing separate things. It’s undeniable how much Sandgaard has input / lent the club, it’s in the accounts. The negative stories of recent cost cutting etc could equally be true, but will still require Sandgaard to keep pumping money in regardless.
The main problem though is a separate one, just how badly run the club is as a whole. And most of that seems completely unrelated to the financials.
Totally agree. Sadly, we’ve just had no luck with any owners.
All this talk of TS spending £20million is laughable, he paid £1million and we had £400k in the bank. He took a loan of £300k. These are only the things we now know about.
what else has gone on?
We are in serious trouble by the sounds of things
Robroy the accounts were out last week. We saw them, presumably you did not. They are what we know about. They are fact. TS has loaned I think it was £16M in 2 years and is probably in for about £20M now (at a guess). This why it wouldn't be a massive surprise if ideally he wanted £25M because he'll have possibly lent that amount by the time a sale is concluded (don't believe he'll get anywhere near that).
Would this all be happening if we were top two or three?
TS is the reason why we are not top two or three. You get what you pay for and he’s not paid for anyone.
Anyone that sticks their head above the parapet and calls out something for what it is, is not being negative for the sake of it. Something does not add up.
Look at all of the long standing members of staff just sacked, left or resigned!
No smoke without fire.
Not knocking your take on things but in my opinion something changed in the summer. I believe when Washington left they did intend to replace him but it got away from them as the season started and they were never going to spend anymore money, which was what was needed. They brought in players that have improved the side, the two full backs, goalkeeper and RS. If Washington had been replaced or Chuks had been fit we may well have had another six points as Garner has suggested and the analysis of Sandgaards intentions would not be nearly as profound
Seems a better idea. No ticket give away to prevent others purchasing. The vouchers requesting you arrive early (6pm) exchangeable for a ticket if you actually turn up.
The home attendance on display vs Portsmouth will be beyond embaressing and even less people will be there than normal because its on TV and its a night game.
The overload of empty seats will be on par with MK dons.
All this talk of TS spending £20million is laughable, he paid £1million and we had £400k in the bank. He took a loan of £300k. These are only the things we now know about.
what else has gone on?
We are in serious trouble by the sounds of things
Check our accounts and see how much the club loses each year. Who do you think covers those losses?
I’ve seen the accounts. It just does not add up, there are far too many negative stories coming out of the club from multiple sources.
I would love to be wrong.
But sadly there is no smoke without fire.
What does not add up? What are you hinting at, but not saying?
The club is losing £8M pa and TS has said he's attempting to reduce expenditure by £2M this year and increase revenue by £2M to halve the loss to £4M.
He has said he plans for the same next year to be able to reach break even.
So yes there are loads of redundancies and cost saving measures.
Edit - No I don't agree with him and it won't work. But it will save him a lot of money until he sells the club. I feel he is low on cash if not shares/assets, which is why he's no longer going for the better option of trying to modestly fund a promotion attempt.
The home attendance on display vs Portsmouth will be beyond embaressing and even less people will be there than normal because its on TV and its a night game.
The overload of empty seats will be on par with MK dons.
Would this all be happening if we were top two or three?
TS is the reason why we are not top two or three. You get what you pay for and he’s not paid for anyone.
Anyone that sticks their head above the parapet and calls out something for what it is, is not being negative for the sake of it. Something does not add up.
Look at all of the long standing members of staff just sacked, left or resigned!
No smoke without fire.
Sorry, what I meant was would Sandgaard be cost cutting so furiously if promotion was on the cards? Imagine we were miraculously six points clear at the top (yes I know, impossible with this squad) would he not try to make the final push, and even shell out in the transfer window?
All this talk of TS spending £20million is laughable, he paid £1million and we had £400k in the bank. He took a loan of £300k. These are only the things we now know about.
what else has gone on?
We are in serious trouble by the sounds of things
Check our accounts and see how much the club loses each year. Who do you think covers those losses?
I’ve seen the accounts. It just does not add up, there are far too many negative stories coming out of the club from multiple sources.
I would love to be wrong.
But sadly there is no smoke without fire.
What does not add up? What are you hinting at, but not saying?
The club is losing £8M pa and TS has said he's attempting to reduce expenditure by £2M this year and increase revenue by £2M to halve the loss to £4M.
He has said he plans for the same next year to be able to reach break even.
So yes there are loads of redundancies and cost saving measures.
OK, so how do you think he'll be able to increase revenue ? Continuing to increase ticket prices each tear ? Hmmm, that went well this time round. Hospitality ? Isn't the take up already poor compared to previous seasons, mainly due to value for money. Shirt sponsorship ? Have you seen how few have been taken up thus far this season ? Mega events staged at The Valley ? Possibly one per close season but that would be about it IMO.
He talks the talk, but hasn't the foggiest how to walk the walk.
I'd far rather listen to the words of someone who knows much more than any of us do - a certain Airman Brown.
Break even in L1 or indeed the Championship ? You're having a laugh !
Finally, the staff redundancies & cost saving measures....Haven't you read the testaments on here regarding the lack of balls, kits AND coaches at our respected Academy ? Club being run by a skeleton staff with no guarantees of replacements and no micro managing RM now on site ( though some might say thank the feck!) Who is in charge on a daily basis these days ? And how long before the cutbacks in this area start to directly affect the faithful ?
I honestly can't believe you've made that post, CE.
Oh & don't forget that loan from a fan recently. Why on earth would this successful business man need that only a couple of months into a new season ?
The budget cuts to the youth academy are a massive insult to the fans that have spent thousands towards Valley Gold and continue to do so out of love to our club.
TS is consistently finding as many ways as possible to upset our fans that give him their hard earned money.
Comments
1) TS is a bit of a Wally running a football club. He’s not an idiot. He’s built a successful business in another field - but he doesn’t and never did know how to run a professional sports team. He was always going to be found out - and has indeed shown to be out of his depth. No conspiracy, no Roland link. He doesn’t know what he was doing and coupled with the apparent lack of funds and it’s the most dangerous situation we could have.
The above is why we are sinking on the pitch and that will ultimately dictate our commercial success off it
2) Roland wasn’t a Wally. Roland was a seemingly (I never met him) very unpleasant person. But I haven’t changed my view - he was a nasty piece of work who knew more about running a football club.
That knowledge translated into on field performance. Squad and recruitment wise (and standard of football) was head and shoulders clear of where we are now.
Neither option was perfect - but I would hazard a guess that if RD was still here and had maintained his distance from all of us to just support the team - we would have been better off than we are now.
Lets just hope option 3 transpires.
No Roland. No TS. New start.
We're a proper odd bunch
We saw them, presumably you did not.
They are what we know about. They are fact.
TS has loaned I think it was £16M in 2 years and is probably in for about £20M now (at a guess).
This why it wouldn't be a massive surprise if ideally he wanted £25M because he'll have possibly lent that amount by the time a sale is concluded (don't believe he'll get anywhere near that).
Scouts will pick off our next generation of players and finally the only working part of the model will be no more.
it's been a long time coming but we are finally kettled, it feels like.
So depressing.
I've no idea what else we could have done as fans.
Any hope out there? Obi Wan?
No ticket give away to prevent others purchasing.
The vouchers requesting you arrive early (6pm) exchangeable for a ticket if you actually turn up.
The overload of empty seats will be on par with MK dons.
Quite heart breaking in a way
What are you hinting at, but not saying?
The club is losing £8M pa and TS has said he's attempting to reduce expenditure by £2M this year and increase revenue by £2M to halve the loss to £4M.
He has said he plans for the same next year to be able to reach break even.
So yes there are loads of redundancies and cost saving measures.
Edit - No I don't agree with him and it won't work.
But it will save him a lot of money until he sells the club.
I feel he is low on cash if not shares/assets, which is why he's no longer going for the better option of trying to modestly fund a promotion attempt.
He talks the talk, but hasn't the foggiest how to walk the walk.
I'd far rather listen to the words of someone who knows much more than any of us do - a certain Airman Brown.
Break even in L1 or indeed the Championship ? You're having a laugh !
Finally, the staff redundancies & cost saving measures....Haven't you read the testaments on here regarding the lack of balls, kits AND coaches at our respected Academy ? Club being run by a skeleton staff with no guarantees of replacements and no micro managing RM now on site ( though some might say thank the feck!) Who is in charge on a daily basis these days ? And how long before the cutbacks in this area start to directly affect the faithful ?
I honestly can't believe you've made that post, CE.
Oh & don't forget that loan from a fan recently. Why on earth would this successful business man need that only a couple of months into a new season ?
Answers on a pc, please.
TS is consistently finding as many ways as possible to upset our fans that give him their hard earned money.