No doubt similar grumbles were made about abolitionists, suffragettes, and the civil rights movement, to name but a few world changing movements. All those people started out on the fringes of popular public opinion but now are all seen as firmly on the right side of history. Protest, which by necessity has to include some element of nuisance to other people to get noticed, has always been a crucial and powerful tool in social change.
The difference is, the people in those movements were doing it in the places where the issue actually was - the epicentre of it - would the civil rights movement have gained as much traction if it was happening on a small island a few thousand miles away whilst the status quo continued in the heart of America?? Hell no the entire impact was because it happened in the US where the issue was. You think China and India care about what is happening here? Not a chance. It's the hearts and minds of the people in those countries that need winning over not us. And these just stop oil protesters know that as well as we do.
Sorry, @golfaddick but the reason you don't like it, is because you're just a grumpy bugger and it inconveniences you and others.
It's a very important issue and fair play to them for bringing to everyone's attention, otherwise most of us would die, not necessarily from global warming but apathy and sheer laziness to do anything about the problems of our world today!
I was saying to my kids yesterday that the the BBC have been showing a lot of stuff on the dinosaurs recently.
They were on this planet millions of years ago. Millions. And they are all now extinct. Yet life goes on. If we all die out the planet will regenerate after a number of years & start all over again. But we wont all die out. And the planet will carry on as before. Maybe a bit more water & a bit less land. But then millions of years ago that was also the case & over time the seas retreated a bit & land was reclaimed.
It's the circle of life. it's the wheel of fortune. I'll be dead in 30 years....40 at the most. My timespan on this planet is just a grain of sand......or, keeping to the point, a drop in the ocean.
No doubt similar grumbles were made about abolitionists, suffragettes, and the civil rights movement, to name but a few world changing movements. All those people started out on the fringes of popular public opinion but now are all seen as firmly on the right side of history. Protest, which by necessity has to include some element of nuisance to other people to get noticed, has always been a crucial and powerful tool in social change.
The difference is, the people in those movements were doing it in the places where the issue actually was - the epicentre of it - would the civil rights movement have gained as much traction if it was happening on a small island a few thousand miles away whilst the status quo continued in the heart of America?? Hell no the entire impact was because it happened in the US where the issue was. You think China and India care about what is happening here? Not a chance. It's the hearts and minds of the people in those countries that need winning over not us. And these just stop oil protesters know that as well as we do.
The epicentre of climate change on earth is earth. Some countries are bigger polluters than others, but it's a global problem we all contribute to. There is no difference.
If only they spent as much time trying to educate people rather than alienating them and debating the semantics of their rights.
There was a video the other day of a group of them walking down a road, and a policeman asked them to move off of it as it presents a dangerous scenario at that moment of time.
Their responses were on the lines of:
“But what do you mean by the road? Where does the road start and end? What about the next road along?”
And
”What do you mean by ‘the moment’?
If that’s the way they want to go about things, then quite frankly they can go fuck themselves as far as I’m concerned. Amazing how they tend to be the same people who will complain about how the services are being decimated, yet they’re willing to go and waste valuable police time with their antics.
The planet is on fire, nature is being wiped out and our entire species at risk of extinction while oil and gas corporations make billions in profit but most people are more angry about some idealistic protesters delaying the arrival of their new kitchen.
Whatever people think of them, they won't stop and climate protests are here for good. Prepare for the level of disruption to increase. The British Open Golf's up next.
No doubt similar grumbles were made about abolitionists, suffragettes, and the civil rights movement, to name but a few world changing movements. All those people started out on the fringes of popular public opinion but now are all seen as firmly on the right side of history. Protest, which by necessity has to include some element of nuisance to other people to get noticed, has always been a crucial and powerful tool in social change.
The difference is, the people in those movements were doing it in the places where the issue actually was - the epicentre of it - would the civil rights movement have gained as much traction if it was happening on a small island a few thousand miles away whilst the status quo continued in the heart of America?? Hell no the entire impact was because it happened in the US where the issue was. You think China and India care about what is happening here? Not a chance. It's the hearts and minds of the people in those countries that need winning over not us. And these just stop oil protesters know that as well as we do.
The epicentre of climate change on earth is earth. Some countries are bigger polluters than others, but it's a global problem we all contribute to. There is no difference.
That is so naïve. Sorry but it is. The epicentre of the issue is in America, India and China. If it's the same thing then tell me how civil rights protests in the UK made changes in America in the 50's and 60's or how French people protesting the suffragettes won British women the right to vote??
For those that weren't aware of it, there is now a thread on the House of Commoners section of this forum set up for debating Environmental Issues and Green Politics.
If only they spent as much time trying to educate people rather than alienating them and debating the semantics of their rights.
There was a video the other day of a group of them walking down a road, and a policeman asked them to move off of it as it presents a dangerous scenario at that moment of time.
Their responses were on the lines of:
“But what do you mean by the road? Where does the road start and end? What about the next road along?”
And
”What do you mean by ‘the moment’?
If that’s the way they want to go about things, then quite frankly they can go fuck themselves as far as I’m concerned. Amazing how they tend to be the same people who will complain about how the services are being decimated, yet they’re willing to go and waste valuable police time with their antics.
Here we are talking about it and researching for ourselves. That’ll start the conversation and start to educate people.
Quite a depressing world if we believe it takes protest groups to educate people when that should be the role of a government instead of populist politics and stoking culture wars.
Re the India/China sentiment - well, that's a byproduct of countries like the UK outsourcing its pollution, in some sense. A lot of our clothes and textiles are created in China or India. We get fruits imported from across the world. So on, so forth. It's a global issue, not a local one.
As for Just Stop Oil... well. Large protests are getting their cause out in the news. And I'll be honest, it is making me think about the climate a bit more, and sustainability, even if I disagree a little with their methods. I am trying on a personal level to reduce plastic usage/single-usage waste, and similar.
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If they're funded by someone whose wealth derives from oil money - well, Aileen Getty herself isn't an oil baron, is she? She is recognising the environmental damage her family's enterprises have caused, and funding a protest group to try and redress the balance. Like, that's that. Why is that a line of attack people are dredging up? Proper ad hominem stuff.
As a result of my career path over the last thirty years I've been aware of the progressive and often ireverrsible damage being done to our planet's environment. Some improvements have taken place during that time but in general the situation continues to worsen and we are now on the cusp of a global crisis. I too have been inconvenienced by the protests but we're all drinking in the Last Chance Saloon and if people don't chose to recognise this they are sadly and unwittingly complicit. Some of you may remember the 2006 documentary by the former US Vice President, Al Gore which won two Oscars. The film provides an excellent introduction to the situation and I would recommend that anyone who hasn't yet seen it should watch it now. It's 97 minutes long and will cost you £2.49 (SD Version) to view on You Tube. If you haven't already then I implore you to watch it now, you can do so here....
Just click on the blue button to the right of the screen stating 'Buy or Rent' and select SD for £2.49. I'd be very surprised if, after watching, your opinion on this subject hasn't been genuinely changed but if that is the case then message me with proof of purchase and I'll gladly pay you the £2.49 that it cost you to watch the film.
For those that weren't aware of it, there is now a thread on the House of Commoners section of this forum set up for debating Environmental Issues and Green Politics.
Sounds riveting, but think I'd sooner visit that shit word game thread on this section of the forum
No doubt similar grumbles were made about abolitionists, suffragettes, and the civil rights movement, to name but a few world changing movements. All those people started out on the fringes of popular public opinion but now are all seen as firmly on the right side of history. Protest, which by necessity has to include some element of nuisance to other people to get noticed, has always been a crucial and powerful tool in social change.
The difference is, the people in those movements were doing it in the places where the issue actually was - the epicentre of it - would the civil rights movement have gained as much traction if it was happening on a small island a few thousand miles away whilst the status quo continued in the heart of America?? Hell no the entire impact was because it happened in the US where the issue was. You think China and India care about what is happening here? Not a chance. It's the hearts and minds of the people in those countries that need winning over not us. And these just stop oil protesters know that as well as we do.
The epicentre of climate change on earth is earth. Some countries are bigger polluters than others, but it's a global problem we all contribute to. There is no difference.
That is so naïve. Sorry but it is. The epicentre of the issue is in America, India and China. If it's the same thing then tell me how civil rights protests in the UK made changes in America in the 50's and 60's or how French people protesting the suffragettes won British women the right to vote??
It isn't the same at all
I'm the one being naive saying climate change is a global problem that we all contribute to am I? I think not. You are aware that climate change protests aren't unique to this country I presume?
it's naive to think that we as a country, or scandinavia or the whole of Europe collectively just stopped using oil that this issue would even be 10% towards being the issue resolved globally. How much of the worlds population are in US, China and India? Shouldn't we be focussing our efforts on educating and pushing them to make changes instead of re-arranging the bedroom furniture like it would make any kind of difference? You could wipe the rest of the world off the map in terms of consumption and pollution and it wouldn't make a dent to the issues we face globally.
it's naive to think that we as a country, or scandinavia or the whole of Europe collectively just stopped using oil that this issue would even be 10% towards being the issue resolved globally. How much of the worlds population are in US, China and India? Shouldn't we be focussing our efforts on educating and pushing them to make changes instead of re-arranging the bedroom furniture like it would make any kind of difference? You could wipe the rest of the world off the map in terms of consumption and pollution and it wouldn't make a dent to the issues we face globally.
It’s the government’s job to focus other counties. They’re not doing it. We’re lucky if this government even attends climate events.
Thinking about joining up with Just Stop Oil, not for any moral issue, more that they seem to be able to get tickets for all the top sporting events. 🤓
The planet is on fire, nature is being wiped out and our entire species at risk of extinction while oil and gas corporations make billions in profit but most people are more angry about some idealistic protesters delaying the arrival of their new kitchen.
Look at any proposal for renewable energy infrastructure of any scale - wind, nuclear, solar - it's inevitably the greens that are objecting to it. The may support renewables in theory but any specific project is opposed, especially nuclear which is essential for a carbon neutral energy mix.
it's naive to think that we as a country, or scandinavia or the whole of Europe collectively just stopped using oil that this issue would even be 10% towards being the issue resolved globally. How much of the worlds population are in US, China and India? Shouldn't we be focussing our efforts on educating and pushing them to make changes instead of re-arranging the bedroom furniture like it would make any kind of difference? You could wipe the rest of the world off the map in terms of consumption and pollution and it wouldn't make a dent to the issues we face globally.
How patronising. China and America are investing vastly more in renewables per capita than we are. India not as much but they have a tiny carbon footprint per person than we do
The planet is on fire, nature is being wiped out and our entire species at risk of extinction while oil and gas corporations make billions in profit but most people are more angry about some idealistic protesters delaying the arrival of their new kitchen.
Lol. Who said more? Is it not possible to be angry at both?
Genuine question. Why was it ok for us to disrupt sporting events at the CARD protests but not for just stop oil at the cricket and Wimbledon? I don’t have an answer.
We were protesting against the club....the place where the protesters were gathered.
Just stop Oil were protesting against (who ?? what ??) at the Lawn Tennis Association. I'm pretty sure that they have nothing to do with the making or extracting of Oil. Nor do the people there watching.
Bit like us protesting against Roland by baracading staff from entering HSBC in Canary Wharf.
it's naive to think that we as a country, or scandinavia or the whole of Europe collectively just stopped using oil that this issue would even be 10% towards being the issue resolved globally. How much of the worlds population are in US, China and India? Shouldn't we be focussing our efforts on educating and pushing them to make changes instead of re-arranging the bedroom furniture like it would make any kind of difference? You could wipe the rest of the world off the map in terms of consumption and pollution and it wouldn't make a dent to the issues we face globally.
How patronising. China and America are investing vastly more in renewables per capita than we are. India not as much but they have a tiny carbon footprint per person than we do
apologies, that wasn't meant to come across as patronising.
i'm glad the Us and China are investing so much in renewables thank god because they need to do something.
Did Just stop oil picket them to make them do that?
For those that weren't aware of it, there is now a thread on the House of Commoners section of this forum set up for debating Environmental Issues and Green Politics.
Sorry, but the Just Stop Oil protestors have brought this away from the Houses of Parliament & general politics and brought it directly into the general public's lives.
Genuine question. Why was it ok for us to disrupt sporting events at the CARD protests but not for just stop oil at the cricket and Wimbledon? I don’t have an answer.
Ours was targeted directly at the ownership of our club. We didn’t do it at other grounds or rock up at a cricket match and start throwing pigs at the Aussie batsmen.
The very fact it’s annoying a lot of people who only have a passing interest in environmental matters and the very fact everyone is now talking about them/the issue is the only proof you need that their approach is effective.
Good for them. I suspect that future generations will regard those currently being arrested for their protests in the same light as we now look upon the pioneers of slavery abolition and the suffragettes.
A lot of whataboutery on here re other things they could do etc but the key for British protesters is to set an example and to push the agenda forward within the UK. They’re doing something, which is more than can be said for the rest of us. They’re raising this up the political agenda and once societal consciousness increases, it will drive political, educational and international change. That’s how protests work…they’re not expecting the world to change overnight because they’ve thrown some confetti at a tennis match but it’s making people talk and trying to stop everyone burying their heads in the sand.
The very fact it’s annoying a lot of people who only have a passing interest in environmental matters and the very fact everyone is now talking about them/the issue is the only proof you need that their approach is effective.
Good for them. I suspect that future generations will regard those currently being arrested for their protests in the same light as we now look upon the pioneers of slavery abolition and the suffragettes.
A lot of whataboutery on here re other things they could do etc but the key for British protesters is to set an example and to push the agenda forward within the UK. They’re doing something, which is more than can be said for the rest of us. They’re raising this up the political agenda and once societal consciousness increases, it will drive political, educational and international change. That’s how protests work…they’re not expecting the world to change overnight because they’ve thrown some confetti at a tennis match but it’s making people talk and trying to stop everyone burying their heads in the sand.
The approach isnt effective because I have not and will not change my actions due to them
The very fact it’s annoying a lot of people who only have a passing interest in environmental matters and the very fact everyone is now talking about them/the issue is the only proof you need that their approach is effective.
Good for them. I suspect that future generations will regard those currently being arrested for their protests in the same light as we now look upon the pioneers of slavery abolition and the suffragettes.
A lot of whataboutery on here re other things they could do etc but the key for British protesters is to set an example and to push the agenda forward within the UK. They’re doing something, which is more than can be said for the rest of us. They’re raising this up the political agenda and once societal consciousness increases, it will drive political, educational and international change. That’s how protests work…they’re not expecting the world to change overnight because they’ve thrown some confetti at a tennis match but it’s making people talk and trying to stop everyone burying their heads in the sand.
The approach isnt effective because I have not and will not change my actions due to them
And he's only got one lung, so if anyone should .....
You will have to if it changes political regulation…and if many others do change their actions or it drives them to push it up the political agenda then it certainly will be effective.
Comments
There was a video the other day of a group of them walking down a road, and a policeman asked them to move off of it as it presents a dangerous scenario at that moment of time.
Their responses were on the lines of:
“But what do you mean by the road? Where does the road start and end? What about the next road along?”
And
”What do you mean by ‘the moment’?
If that’s the way they want to go about things, then quite frankly they can go fuck themselves as far as I’m concerned. Amazing how they tend to be the same people who will complain about how the services are being decimated, yet they’re willing to go and waste valuable police time with their antics.
It isn't the same at all
As for Just Stop Oil... well. Large protests are getting their cause out in the news. And I'll be honest, it is making me think about the climate a bit more, and sustainability, even if I disagree a little with their methods. I am trying on a personal level to reduce plastic usage/single-usage waste, and similar.
-------
If they're funded by someone whose wealth derives from oil money - well, Aileen Getty herself isn't an oil baron, is she? She is recognising the environmental damage her family's enterprises have caused, and funding a protest group to try and redress the balance. Like, that's that. Why is that a line of attack people are dredging up? Proper ad hominem stuff.
I too have been inconvenienced by the protests but we're all drinking in the Last Chance Saloon and if people don't chose to recognise this they are sadly and unwittingly complicit. Some of you may remember the 2006 documentary by the former US Vice President, Al Gore which won two Oscars. The film provides an excellent introduction to the situation and I would recommend that anyone who hasn't yet seen it should watch it now. It's 97 minutes long and will cost you £2.49 (SD Version) to view on You Tube.
If you haven't already then I implore you to watch it now, you can do so here....
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=An+Inconvenient+Truth%2Bmovie
Just click on the blue button to the right of the screen stating 'Buy or Rent' and select SD for £2.49.
I'd be very surprised if, after watching, your opinion on this subject hasn't been genuinely changed but if that is the case then message me with proof of purchase and I'll gladly pay you the £2.49 that it cost you to watch the film.
Just stop Oil were protesting against (who ?? what ??) at the Lawn Tennis Association. I'm pretty sure that they have nothing to do with the making or extracting of Oil. Nor do the people there watching.
Bit like us protesting against Roland by baracading staff from entering HSBC in Canary Wharf.
i'm glad the Us and China are investing so much in renewables thank god because they need to do something.
Did Just stop oil picket them to make them do that?
Direct action is met by direct action.
A lot of whataboutery on here re other things they could do etc but the key for British protesters is to set an example and to push the agenda forward within the UK. They’re doing something, which is more than can be said for the rest of us. They’re raising this up the political agenda and once societal consciousness increases, it will drive political, educational and international change. That’s how protests work…they’re not expecting the world to change overnight because they’ve thrown some confetti at a tennis match but it’s making people talk and trying to stop everyone burying their heads in the sand.