It’s a shame as their message is extremely important and one that everyone should be aware of, and if they can, do their bit to support, educate and work together on. However, their execution is too aggressive in that they alienate people and don’t help foster relations between those that don’t understand/ignore the magnitude of climate change, and those of us that really worry about it
Hottest day on record globally y’day and we’ve all got to work together. I know a lot of tackling climate change is out of our hands due to the complexity of carbon output, political collaboration and business, but for me, their actions push people further down a rabbit hole of not caring, if they weren’t that bothered in the first place.
They will say they need to take drastic action, but short sabotaging refineries, coal plants and doing damage to oil and gas infrastructure, their actions aren’t changing anything. I’m not advocating they do destroy such infrastructure, just pointing out that what they’re doing isn’t working in the short, medium or long term.
As an aside, the people that get triggered by them standing in the road and take it into their own hands to move them are also cringe. Unless you’ve got an emergency, then I don’t understand how you feel you’ve got the right to pick someone else up and physically move them. The scene when one of them was on a tube in East London a few years back and got pulled off and fell to the ground and all the commuters started laying into him, disgusting. Some people think that because they’re generally perceived as a nuisance, they have carte blanche to rough them up.
It was because the guys on the top of the train got roughed up that the Organisers of Extinction Rebellion realized that some protests were an own goal which has made then rethink their protest strategy.
The very fact it’s annoying a lot of people who only have a passing interest in environmental matters and the very fact everyone is now talking about them/the issue is the only proof you need that their approach is effective.
Good for them. I suspect that future generations will regard those currently being arrested for their protests in the same light as we now look upon the pioneers of slavery abolition and the suffragettes.
A lot of whataboutery on here re other things they could do etc but the key for British protesters is to set an example and to push the agenda forward within the UK. They’re doing something, which is more than can be said for the rest of us. They’re raising this up the political agenda and once societal consciousness increases, it will drive political, educational and international change. That’s how protests work…they’re not expecting the world to change overnight because they’ve thrown some confetti at a tennis match but it’s making people talk and trying to stop everyone burying their heads in the sand.
Agree with the cause but I pray for the day I see the little soapy pricks in public so I can two foot them. Absolute cunts and hope one runs on silverstone to get splatted across the track at 180mph.
The very fact it’s annoying a lot of people who only have a passing interest in environmental matters and the very fact everyone is now talking about them/the issue is the only proof you need that their approach is effective.
Good for them. I suspect that future generations will regard those currently being arrested for their protests in the same light as we now look upon the pioneers of slavery abolition and the suffragettes.
A lot of whataboutery on here re other things they could do etc but the key for British protesters is to set an example and to push the agenda forward within the UK. They’re doing something, which is more than can be said for the rest of us. They’re raising this up the political agenda and once societal consciousness increases, it will drive political, educational and international change. That’s how protests work…they’re not expecting the world to change overnight because they’ve thrown some confetti at a tennis match but it’s making people talk and trying to stop everyone burying their heads in the sand.
talks about whataboutery - then in the same post "what about slavery abolition and the suffragettes"
bored of the excuses for this behaviour - people miss chemo appointments and funerals. They didn't for the other two. it is'nt the same
The very fact it’s annoying a lot of people who only have a passing interest in environmental matters and the very fact everyone is now talking about them/the issue is the only proof you need that their approach is effective.
Good for them. I suspect that future generations will regard those currently being arrested for their protests in the same light as we now look upon the pioneers of slavery abolition and the suffragettes.
A lot of whataboutery on here re other things they could do etc but the key for British protesters is to set an example and to push the agenda forward within the UK. They’re doing something, which is more than can be said for the rest of us. They’re raising this up the political agenda and once societal consciousness increases, it will drive political, educational and international change. That’s how protests work…they’re not expecting the world to change overnight because they’ve thrown some confetti at a tennis match but it’s making people talk and trying to stop everyone burying their heads in the sand.
The very fact it’s annoying a lot of people who only have a passing interest in environmental matters and the very fact everyone is now talking about them/the issue is the only proof you need that their approach is effective.
Good for them. I suspect that future generations will regard those currently being arrested for their protests in the same light as we now look upon the pioneers of slavery abolition and the suffragettes.
A lot of whataboutery on here re other things they could do etc but the key for British protesters is to set an example and to push the agenda forward within the UK. They’re doing something, which is more than can be said for the rest of us. They’re raising this up the political agenda and once societal consciousness increases, it will drive political, educational and international change. That’s how protests work…they’re not expecting the world to change overnight because they’ve thrown some confetti at a tennis match but it’s making people talk and trying to stop everyone burying their heads in the sand.
My thoughts exactly 👍
Me too.
Me too.
Minimal disruption at Wimbledon (with max media coverage) caused by a granddad worried about his grandchildren’s future 👏👏 - not someone to be ‘two footed’.
It’s those of us that do nothing who should be asking ourselves questions.
The very fact it’s annoying a lot of people who only have a passing interest in environmental matters and the very fact everyone is now talking about them/the issue is the only proof you need that their approach is effective.
Good for them. I suspect that future generations will regard those currently being arrested for their protests in the same light as we now look upon the pioneers of slavery abolition and the suffragettes.
A lot of whataboutery on here re other things they could do etc but the key for British protesters is to set an example and to push the agenda forward within the UK. They’re doing something, which is more than can be said for the rest of us. They’re raising this up the political agenda and once societal consciousness increases, it will drive political, educational and international change. That’s how protests work…they’re not expecting the world to change overnight because they’ve thrown some confetti at a tennis match but it’s making people talk and trying to stop everyone burying their heads in the sand.
My thoughts exactly 👍
Me too.
Me too.
Minimal disruption at Wimbledon (with max media coverage) caused by a granddad worried about his grandchildren’s future 👏👏 - not someone to be ‘two footed’.
It’s those of us that do nothing who should be asking ourselves questions.
Sorry I must have missed the pricks stopping traffic across the capital/m25 stopping tradesman/zero hour workers getting to work and earning money. I suppose it’s sweet when it doesn’t affect you. I will two foot away.
Agree with the cause but I pray for the day I see the little soapy pricks in public so I can two foot them. Absolute cunts and hope one runs on silverstone to get splatted across the track at 180mph.
Aggressively inconveniencing decent ordinary people. There is a lot of chatter about Just Stop Oil's right of protest but what about the right of ordinary people to go about their business?
Aggressive?
Is throwing orange paint on a building not owned by you not aggressive?
As many others have said their message is actually an important one, but they've gone about it in such a way whereby most of the country now don't care about their cause and just think they're a bunch of pricks.
The very fact that most people would now be perfectly happy to see them beaten up is clear proof of this.
For those that weren't aware of it, there is now a thread on the House of Commoners section of this forum set up for debating Environmental Issues and Green Politics.
Sorry, but the Just Stop Oil protestors have brought this away from the Houses of Parliament & general politics and brought it directly into the general public's lives.
Direct action is met by direct action.
No need to apologize. I'm pleased you started this thread and was just trying to help direct those interested in the underlying cause of the protests rather than the actions of the protestors.
FWIW, you've managed ignite a discussion on this thread that's had nearly as many contributions in less than 24 hours than the other thread has had in nearly two months. Whatever you think of the protestors, they are increasing public awareness and, ironically, aren't going to stop.
Anyone daft enough to deck one of them whilst they're protesting at a major sporting event would find themselves caught on camera and charged with assault and end up with a criminal record. I doubt those protesting want that to happen, but it would add to the publicity, which is their goal.
I agree that some of their tactics are potentially dangerous, not just to them but others, and in targeting racing events I fear a tragedy will occur sooner or later. However, what happened at Wimbledon yesterday was a minor inconvenience and it made the national news. To that extent it was a success, whereas if I was to walk up the high street wearing a sandwich board, not being Greta, I wouldn't get the huge media exposure.
I don't like seeing people inconvenienced or worse by protestors and wouldn't want to join them, but I accept the climate change science and humans influence on it. An inconvenient truth is right as not enough is being done to reduce Co2 emissions in time, so be prepared for protest action of the nonviolent civil disobedient type to escalate as that's their stated strategy.
Aggressively inconveniencing decent ordinary people. There is a lot of chatter about Just Stop Oil's right of protest but what about the right of ordinary people to go about their business?
Aggressive?
Is throwing orange paint on a building not owned by you not aggressive?
Aggressively inconveniencing decent ordinary people. There is a lot of chatter about Just Stop Oil's right of protest but what about the right of ordinary people to go about their business?
Aggressive?
Is throwing orange paint on a building not owned by you not aggressive?
No. It's vandalism.
…and, therefore, illegal. How the hell someone can legally sit in the middle of a public road is beyond me. This country makes life harder than it needs to be for the law abiding citizen.
It’s a world issue. Throwing confetti at Wimbledon isn’t going to stop the big polluters. It isn’t even going to stop companies manufacturing in the big polluting countries. Even if by some miracle it changed policy in the UK, it’s still futile, until it’s financially cheaper to be green.
Frustrating but there is no point worrying / getting angry about it, same as nuclear war, pandemics, climate change, the takeover etc. We are very insignificant in the grand scheme of things and for the most part, so are our actions.
Aggressively inconveniencing decent ordinary people. There is a lot of chatter about Just Stop Oil's right of protest but what about the right of ordinary people to go about their business?
Aggressive?
Is throwing orange paint on a building not owned by you not aggressive?
I agree with their message, but I hate their tactics and I bet there's not a single one of them that most of us (bar the usual few contrarians) would enjoy a drink with.
I also don't understand the idea that talking about something means it's working. Especially if minds aren't being changed.
I feel like a lot of the participants are very cultish, and that in their minds so much disruption can be excused because this is "so important."
I think a lot of people with sympathies on here would stop if someone from, say, EDL stormed Wimbledon to protest against immigration, something they would argue is "so important". Although I guess because we would be talking about them, it would be a successful protest? A lot of the time methods of protests are only justified if you happen to agree with them. That for me is incorrect. Protest is acceptable but must be proportional, I would support anyone's right to protest, but not like this.
I also find comparisons with the American Civil rights movement quite uncomfortable, I'm surprised (and unsurprised) that certain people on here don't.
Although I don't condone or necessarily want to see them getting roughed up, I completely understand why people trying to get to work would do that and I could definitely see myself doing something in those situations. You don't have the right to waste anyone's time, especially when they are going somewhere (sport is different, I just turn to the side and chat to my mate). It's the natural injustice of stopping someone people going about their daily business which is unacceptable to me. People are noy there to be a pawn in one of their little stunts.
I''d say that peaceful protest is standing there with placards, championing your cause, usually in a strategically placed location.
Chucking powder paint and disrupting others lives is civil disobedience and in JSO's case, they do it in a passive / aggressive way, acting "peaceful" while hoping someone else commits violence on them, so they can then play the victim - a typical privileged middle class militant tacttic.
This notion that JSO protests are working, because they're getting people to talk about their cause, is nonsense imo. The vast majority of the very people they're effecting are already fully aware that climate change is something that needs addressing, but the only real way Joe Public can make change is through voting or signing petitions etc,. So imagine if the same JSO protesters set up at Pride, Wimbledon, F1 etc with a pasting table and leaflets and spoke to people, maybe inviting them to sign an online petition, or get involvedin other ways. Reckon they'd be over the 100k mark in no time.
I think you need a small extreme group of idiots to make the reasonable ones seem more reasonable. Just stop oil aren't going to change much themselves (ev but they are inviting a discussion
I wouldn't have been able to resist if I was a tennis player at Wimbledon, a few 100 mile an hour serves in their general direction, would have got them off the court pretty sharpish.
So what’s the plan if they rock up at the valley next season?
Aggressively inconveniencing decent ordinary people. There is a lot of chatter about Just Stop Oil's right of protest but what about the right of ordinary people to go about their business?
Aggressive?
Is throwing orange paint on a building not owned by you not aggressive?
No. It's vandalism.
Which is an aggressive act
I stand corrected. I always assumed it had to be directed at a person or persons.
I''d say that peaceful protest is standing there with placards, championing your cause, usually in a strategically placed location.
Chucking powder paint and disrupting others lives is civil disobedience and in JSO's case, they do it in a passive / aggressive way, acting "peaceful" while hoping someone else commits violence on them, so they can then play the victim - a typical privileged middle class militant tacttic.
This notion that JSO protests are working, because they're getting people to talk about their cause, is nonsense imo. The vast majority of the very people they're effecting are already fully aware that climate change is something that needs addressing, but the only real way Joe Public can make change is through voting or signing petitions etc,. So imagine if the same JSO protesters set up at Pride, Wimbledon, F1 etc with a pasting table and leaflets and spoke to people, maybe inviting them to sign an online petition, or get involvedin other ways. Reckon they'd be over the 100k mark in no time.
I've taken the liberty of copying this from the Extinction Rebellion strategy page because I think it's relevant to your post.
At the core of Extinction Rebellion’s philosophy is nonviolent civil disobedience. We promote civil disobedience and rebellion because we think it is necessary- we are asking people to find their courage and to collectively do what is necessary to bring about change.
We aren’t focussed on traditional systems like petitions or writing to our MPs and more likely to take risks (e.g. arrest / jail time). We don’t want or need everyone to get arrested – for some this is not a good idea – but we do want everyone involved to support civil disobedience as a tool.
We are promoting mass “above the ground” civil disobedience – in full public view. This means economic disruption to shake the current political system and civil disruption to raise awareness. We are deeply sorry for any inconvenience that this causes.
We have made some decisions about security and our interactions with the police. We have made a strategic decision to communicate with the police about what we are doing when we believe that is more likely to enable things to go well (which we can’t always be sure of). Except for the case where a small group is trying to do a specific action that needs the element of surprise, we generally don’t try to be secure in our communications about plans. We expect that we have been infiltrated by those without our best interests at heart and suggest people bear this in mind.
We are about political change, not personal change (though we welcome the latter).
We are completely nonviolent, our actions are done in full public view and we take responsibility for them. We have an Action Consensus which outlines how we work together on actions.
Comments
It was because the guys on the top of the train got roughed up that the Organisers of Extinction Rebellion realized that some protests were an own goal which has made then rethink their protest strategy.
bored of the excuses for this behaviour - people miss chemo appointments and funerals. They didn't for the other two. it is'nt the same
The very fact that most people would now be perfectly happy to see them beaten up is clear proof of this.
FWIW, you've managed ignite a discussion on this thread that's had nearly as many contributions in less than 24 hours than the other thread has had in nearly two months. Whatever you think of the protestors, they are increasing public awareness and, ironically, aren't going to stop.
Anyone daft enough to deck one of them whilst they're protesting at a major sporting event would find themselves caught on camera and charged with assault and end up with a criminal record. I doubt those protesting want that to happen, but it would add to the publicity, which is their goal.
I agree that some of their tactics are potentially dangerous, not just to them but others, and in targeting racing events I fear a tragedy will occur sooner or later. However, what happened at Wimbledon yesterday was a minor inconvenience and it made the national news. To that extent it was a success, whereas if I was to walk up the high street wearing a sandwich board, not being Greta, I wouldn't get the huge media exposure.
I don't like seeing people inconvenienced or worse by protestors and wouldn't want to join them, but I accept the climate change science and humans influence on it. An inconvenient truth is right as not enough is being done to reduce Co2 emissions in time, so be prepared for protest action of the nonviolent civil disobedient type to escalate as that's their stated strategy.
Frustrating but there is no point worrying / getting angry about it, same as nuclear war, pandemics, climate change, the takeover etc. We are very insignificant in the grand scheme of things and for the most part, so are our actions.
I also don't understand the idea that talking about something means it's working. Especially if minds aren't being changed.
I feel like a lot of the participants are very cultish, and that in their minds so much disruption can be excused because this is "so important."
I think a lot of people with sympathies on here would stop if someone from, say, EDL stormed Wimbledon to protest against immigration, something they would argue is "so important". Although I guess because we would be talking about them, it would be a successful protest? A lot of the time methods of protests are only justified if you happen to agree with them. That for me is incorrect. Protest is acceptable but must be proportional, I would support anyone's right to protest, but not like this.
I also find comparisons with the American Civil rights movement quite uncomfortable, I'm surprised (and unsurprised) that certain people on here don't.
Although I don't condone or necessarily want to see them getting roughed up, I completely understand why people trying to get to work would do that and I could definitely see myself doing something in those situations. You don't have the right to waste anyone's time, especially when they are going somewhere (sport is different, I just turn to the side and chat to my mate). It's the natural injustice of stopping someone people going about their daily business which is unacceptable to me. People are noy there to be a pawn in one of their little stunts.
Chucking powder paint and disrupting others lives is civil disobedience and in JSO's case, they do it in a passive / aggressive way, acting "peaceful" while hoping someone else commits violence on them, so they can then play the victim - a typical privileged middle class militant tacttic.
This notion that JSO protests are working, because they're getting people to talk about their cause, is nonsense imo. The vast majority of the very people they're effecting are already fully aware that climate change is something that needs addressing, but the only real way Joe Public can make change is through voting or signing petitions etc,. So imagine if the same JSO protesters set up at Pride, Wimbledon, F1 etc with a pasting table and leaflets and spoke to people, maybe inviting them to sign an online petition, or get involvedin other ways. Reckon they'd be over the 100k mark in no time.
At the core of Extinction Rebellion’s philosophy is nonviolent civil disobedience. We promote civil disobedience and rebellion because we think it is necessary- we are asking people to find their courage and to collectively do what is necessary to bring about change.
We aren’t focussed on traditional systems like petitions or writing to our MPs and more likely to take risks (e.g. arrest / jail time). We don’t want or need everyone to get arrested – for some this is not a good idea – but we do want everyone involved to support civil disobedience as a tool.
We are promoting mass “above the ground” civil disobedience – in full public view. This means economic disruption to shake the current political system and civil disruption to raise awareness. We are deeply sorry for any inconvenience that this causes.
We have made some decisions about security and our interactions with the police. We have made a strategic decision to communicate with the police about what we are doing when we believe that is more likely to enable things to go well (which we can’t always be sure of). Except for the case where a small group is trying to do a specific action that needs the element of surprise, we generally don’t try to be secure in our communications about plans. We expect that we have been infiltrated by those without our best interests at heart and suggest people bear this in mind.
We are about political change, not personal change (though we welcome the latter).
We are completely nonviolent, our actions are done in full public view and we take responsibility for them. We have an Action Consensus which outlines how we work together on actions.