On the news that rail workers have voted to continue strikes for the next 6 months. Looks like we won't be coming to matches by train until next season.
One solution in my eyes would be to link up with nearby car parks for a park and ride scheme. The car park at IKEA is half full at most at any one time, yhere's a multi storey one near the O2 that is rarely used, even on concert nights it doesn't fill up most of the time, and a couple in Woolwich town centre that have capacities far bigger than current needs (the Sainsbury's one for instance)
Combine that with the overflow parking that isn't ever used at Stone Lake Retail Park, you've got the beginnings of a network of places not too far from The Valley (some within walking distance) that could actually handle the capacity, and make more money too, be it through the club paying a lump sum or through subscriptions
I mentioned this as an option on our return to The Valley as the council were concerned about parking back then. Obviously it wasn't needed, now the park and ride could do with starting on the edge of the ULEZ zone as I'm convinced this is causing a decline on attendances too.
If the council can't be made to see sense, or a viable work around sorted, I can't see anyone investing in the club and we won't have one as a direct result.
Most London clubs don't have any decent parking near their grounds It won't even enter any investors minds
Indeed, but which ones have public transport as inadequate as The Valley from the areas where the majority of supporters live?
We have a train station & buses top & bottom road even the tube to North Greenwich is not that far away with buses running to charlton frequently DLR & Elizabeth line run to Woolwich That's more then most
A large majority of our support comes from Kent and some from East Sussex and unless you want to get a train into London and out again to Charlton and then reverse the journey later then driving is the only realistic option. I doubt I’d be coming up now if it wasn’t for Valley Express.
I hate public transport and you’d never get me on a bus.
But you got to remember our ground is in SE London Mostt residents in the Greenwich Borough have to pay to park outside their homes with a yearly fee So the council are not going to worry about supporters having to park once maybe twice a fortnight who want to drive to the game I am lucky it takes me 10 mins to walk to the ground but there's plenty of ways if you look into it
Lewisham council are sticking parking permits on loads of roads in Surrey Quays/Deptford. Plenty of which are in walking distance of The Den as well. This isn't just Greenwich council, but a concerted effort to reduce the number of cars in each borough.
As a resident, I don't disagree with the action but I do understand the frustration of anyone who has to drive to the football.
If it helps I've roughly traced it over Google maps
Can still park on the hospital side of the park, but that gets busy enough with the park football most Saturdays, so will be a nightmare if every displaced Charlton parker also has to aim for that area.
I now have a blue badge, but I have as yet not seen any disabled parking bays, and I park near or around Sherrington Road. I come up from Hythe, although I have been a rare visitor to the Valley over the past two seasons. When I do come I take my two sons which I collect on my way. I was planning to take my grandson for his first visit to the Valley just before Christmas, and later in the new year my grand daughter.
They are only 5, and my grandson has a grandfather who is a palace supporter, I dread to think he would be going to that place!!!!!!!.
I rarely park on a yellow line, and appreciate I no longer live in South east London, and that parking is at a premium, but this does seem disproportionate to what is at present a dwindling attendance for most matches.
Seems to me that with Ulez, and now parking issues it is becoming increasingly more difficult to attend matches these days. As others have suggested this needs to be at least discussed with the club, which it appears not to have been done, unless I have misunderstood things.
I'm sure there is a way around this, but when I lived in Bexley people used to park in our road because of the trains, going to London, I never got annoyed unless they parked over our driveway!.
I hope there is solution, otherwise I fear for the economic effects on the club, as others have expressed.
The sensible thing would be having a match day agreement in place with one of the nearby retail carparks that has anpr whereby people can register their cars fo a small fee to stay for a set longer time. But the club has a car park with a circa 250 car capacity and imo they should at least be offering quite a percentage of those who this will genuinely affect (perhaps blue badge holders) rather than selling the spaces at hugely inflated prices as part of hospitality and match day packages.
The club do have a small area for disabled drivers. Can't see them losing out on revenue just out of the goodness of their hearts- it's a business after all.
Apparently not, according to Greenwich Council? Nor the other local businesses who benefit from the additional footfall on matchday.
There must be many who, for reasons of health, time, cost and/or lack of suitable public transport connections from where they live will find this parking issue a great disincentive to attend matches.
I suggest this is going to make it extremely difficult for the club to increase attendance - quite the reverse is likely to happen, especially amongst non-season ticket holders like me, who have not paid up front for the season. It looks unlikely that Greenwich Council will row back on their ill-conceived scheme, so maybe the club itself needs to be proactive in trying to get local retail parks to make (paid for) spaces available at a reasonable cost?
I notice above someone has acquainted Steve Sutherland with the issue. I hope someone with contacts to Charlie Methven has also pointed out to him this very real threat to his "break even" ambitions.
Would be good to know what the following have been doing about this issue as this has not all of a sudden come up (in VOTV 18 months ago and this thread well over a month ago):-
The Club The Trust The Fans Advisors The Fans Forum
Would be good to know what the following have been doing about this issue as this has not all of a sudden come up (in VOTV 18 months ago and this thread well over a month ago):-
The Club The Trust The Fans Advisors The Fans Forum
Drivers going to the valley are annoyed because they might have to get a bus or walk a mile or so.
But I can't help wondering what it's like when you come home after work and have to park a mile away from your house.
Somebody has to suffer !
Why does anyone have to 'suffer' just so Greenwich council can line their coffers? Have some thought for those supporters who re elderly or infirm and who simply cant walk that far. Oh I'll tell you who else will suffer, the club. Surel7 you don't believe the council are doing this to benefit the residents?
Maybe the council should think of a football match only permit, and make some money plus regulate the numbers and allocate a street. Maybe valid 2hrs prior to a game and 1hr after it finishes.Something along those lines.
Send in an email highlighting your concerns to The Mayor of The RBG. I have and it would be good if everybody did. Can’t do any harm. Cllr. Dominic Mbang
Would be good to know what the following have been doing about this issue as this has not all of a sudden come up (in VOTV 18 months ago and this thread well over a month ago):-
The Club The Trust The Fans Advisors The Fans Forum
With all the changes of personnel, major ones, middle ones, change of owners etc I bet this has been overlooked. I would add CAST to this list ( the trust you refer to? not sure if you mean CACT). We need to inform them of all the scenarios so they can lobby the Council effectively/persuasively
The sensible thing would be having a match day agreement in place with one of the nearby retail carparks that has anpr whereby people can register their cars fo a small fee to stay for a set longer time. But the club has a car park with a circa 250 car capacity and imo they should at least be offering quite a percentage of those who this will genuinely affect (perhaps blue badge holders) rather than selling the spaces at hugely inflated prices as part of hospitality and match day packages.
I don't know the exact capacity of the West Stand car park but that must be in the right ball park.
So, take out the spaces used by the players, including those that aren't playing but just pitch up, match officials, senior club staff, directors (and ex-directors), the away team's directors/representatives, Charlton TV presenters, other clubs' scouts, Chris Parkes & Keith Peacock, media people, the catering truck, two ambulances and the Charlton minibus and there are maybe, let's guess, 150/175 left. Some of those get lost for the O/B trucks if the match is televised.
I have one of those spaces. The club gets £6k from me a season. If I don't get the space, I don't come to the games: it would be the end for me and the club lose money. In my case that would just be my choice because I don't want to park my car anywhere on the streets of SE7. (And I am not travelling from deepest rural Essex to Charlton by public transport.) But someone who is buying hospitality for a business will not want to be dragging their match guests around the streets of South London at any time of the year, let alone in the Winter when it is raining. The loses to the club through giving up any of those precious parking spaces would be huge, especially in terms of sponsorship deals. In any event, that is just scratching at the surface of the problem.
Edited to add: Just knock down the stadium and build a multi-story car park that would solve the problem.
Would be good to know what the following have been doing about this issue as this has not all of a sudden come up (in VOTV 18 months ago and this thread well over a month ago):-
The Club The Trust The Fans Advisors The Fans Forum
With all the changes of personnel, major ones, middle ones, change of owners etc I bet this has been overlooked. I would add CAST to this list ( the trust you refer to? not sure if you mean CACT). We need to inform them of all the scenarios so they can lobby the Council effectively/persuasively
I meant the Supporters Trust as they represent the supporters, that is not the role of the Community Trust.
On the news that rail workers have voted to continue strikes for the next 6 months. Looks like we won't be coming to matches by train until next season.
They are going on strike every Saturday? Lynch is ramping it up even more than I thought
One solution in my eyes would be to link up with nearby car parks for a park and ride scheme. The car park at IKEA is half full at most at any one time, yhere's a multi storey one near the O2 that is rarely used, even on concert nights it doesn't fill up most of the time, and a couple in Woolwich town centre that have capacities far bigger than current needs (the Sainsbury's one for instance)
Combine that with the overflow parking that isn't ever used at Stone Lake Retail Park, you've got the beginnings of a network of places not too far from The Valley (some within walking distance) that could actually handle the capacity, and make more money too, be it through the club paying a lump sum or through subscriptions
I mentioned this as an option on our return to The Valley as the council were concerned about parking back then. Obviously it wasn't needed, now the park and ride could do with starting on the edge of the ULEZ zone as I'm convinced this is causing a decline on attendances too.
If the council can't be made to see sense, or a viable work around sorted, I can't see anyone investing in the club and we won't have one as a direct result.
Most London clubs don't have any decent parking near their grounds It won't even enter any investors minds
Indeed, but which ones have public transport as inadequate as The Valley from the areas where the majority of supporters live?
We have a train station & buses top & bottom road even the tube to North Greenwich is not that far away with buses running to charlton frequently DLR & Elizabeth line run to Woolwich That's more then most
North Greenwich, the DLR and the Elizabeth line are of no practical use to about 80 per cent of Charlton fans as they do not serve the places they come from - those who can benefit from them probably already use them.
I am generally pro public transport and the staton is an asset, but for various reasons it is not reliable or efficient. I can drive to The Valley in 75 minutes but the rail journey takes twice that. This was the point of Valley Express but it is a long while since the club demonstrated any understanding of its purpose. Indeed at the Exeter game it appeared to announce it was an alternative to using the Blackwall Tunnel, even though no coaches go north of the river.
This isn’t even about whether regular fans will make the effort, it’s about whether new or casual ones will. It cannot do other than damage revenue and undermine the club accordingly.
The council and the club should have been round the table looking for solutions and alternatives from the outset. There are responsibilities on both sides but if the club did not know about it, as suggested, then questions need to be asked of those responsible.
I highly doubt that Methven, Rodwell and co have a clue about this issue, but management in place for the last decade should.
It's a common theme now, with councils not wanting to encourage cars entering residential areas and those same councils believing that the majority of public transport provides a viable alternative, which it clearly does not. My own journey from deepest Kent has been disrupted due to rail strikes and the later finishing times of the games due to injury time being regularly nearer ten minutes. The 17.05 train from Charlton to Rainham, where I would happily park the car, is now a distant memory, as for night games, it's a drive to Charlton or there is a good chance I won't get home at all. I wish that the Football authorities would take a look at this and perhaps allow the clubs to kick off 15 mins earlier if that was what the fans wanted.
The last few seasons have really tested the patience of Charlton supporters.Many times I have asked myself is this journey every saturday worth it when we have been watching such mediocrity.I am nearly 80,drive up from medway with my wife,if I cant continue to do this ,I wont come,full stop.I am not going to ponce about with trains and buses,leaving home at 12.00 am getting home after 700pm,no thanks.
Until last season we used the various ‘club’ car parks, usually the furthest away. Over the years these reduced until we were moved to the West Stand car park at a reduced rate. By then, my dad needed wheelchair facilities, then latterly, my mum could just about make it from car park to seat. We don’t have the really old folk now so I can’t justify the high price.
So we now use the train from Dartford, but having moved house we now have a 30 minute drive beforehand. We park in the station car park and the club’s efforts to reduce attendances have ensured we can always get a space. However, should the unthinkable happen and attendances rise then this option becomes problematic.
The timetable, when there are no strikes or engineering works, would have you believe there are 4 trains an hour but in reality it’s only 2 as they come in pairs !
For most 3pm matches, with the increased added time, the 17:05 and 17:08 trains are not catchable so there is a 30 minute wait on an exposed platform with minimal cover. The train is not an appealing way of travelling to and from matches.
Interesting the Council has already changed tonight the wording of what was put on that link this afternoon. It was…
And it’s now…
Match day parking control
The Council is proposing to introduce match day parking restrictions and additional controls in the areas surrounding the Charlton Athletic football stadium.
The areas in which match day parking controls are proposed are the areas covered by both the Charlton ‘C’ and Charlton Station ‘CS’ Controlled Parking Zones (CPZs), for which a consultation was held earlier this year and are due to come into operation this December.
Provision for match day parking controls did not form part of the original consultation for the Charlton ‘C’ and Charlton Station ‘CS’ CPZs, but concerns were raised about the impact of match day parking during that consultation. In response to those concerns, we have sought to open a further consultation at the earliest opportunity, specific to a proposal to introduce match day parking controls.
Match Day parking restrictions are common, not only in areas surrounding many of London’s major sports stadiums, but also stadiums of a similar size throughout the country. Their purpose is to prioritise parking for local residents, businesses and their visitors on match days, which can otherwise be filled by visitors to the stadium. They also seek to reduce car use by encouraging supporters to use more sustainable modes of transport.
What are we proposing?
We are proposing to extend parking restrictions from the current 6.30pm, until 9pm on each day there is a football match at the Charlton Athletic stadium (The Valley). The proposal also includes for match day parking controls to operate when matches are played on Sundays and Public Holidays, which would not be covered by the existing CPZ parking controls.
Not only do the proposed time periods cover all expected kick-off times, but they also consider minimising the visual impact of the road signs that will be necessary to convey information to drivers. For matches that continue beyond 9pm, supporters will have already arrived at the stadium prior to kick-off. Maintaining parking controls beyond 9pm is therefore considered unnecessary.
Proposed days and hours of operation also consider the potential impact of Charlton Athletic progressing into a higher division, where kick-off times are more likely to be more varied than at present. In doing so, we are seeking to futureproof the proposals also seek to avoid issues that may occur as a result of increased match attendances, should Charlton Athletic progress to the Championship or the Premier League.
Alternative options for match day operations have been considered. But variations on days and hours of operation can result in much larger signs that can be overly complex and more difficult to understand. An example of the type of road sign that would be present if match day parking controls are introduced is proved below. This alongside an alternative option, in which the time periods are more varied.
Please note
Within the Charlton ‘C’ CPZ, parking bays in several roads are to remain free and unrestricted. Vehicles being parked in these bays will not require a parking permit. Match day parking controls will not apply to in parking bay that is marked with a sign that includes the blue P symbol and ‘Free’. The roads in which ‘Free’ parking bays are located are highlighted and marked as “Charlton ‘C’ CPZ Permit Exemption Area” in the overview map which can be viewed by clicking the link below.
However, on match days, the operational hours of any single yellow line, within any of the roads in the Permit Exemption Areas, will extend to 9pm, unless there is a yellow sign indicating alternative operational hours apply to a particular length of yellow line.
How to have your say?
The consultation will close on Wednesday 8 November at 5pm. View the overview map below and let us know your thoughts by submitting any comments regarding the proposed scheme plans, these will be required in writing during this 21 day consultation to either:
email: parking-design@royalgreenwich.gov.uk or
Parking Design Team, The Woolwich Centre, 35 Wellington Street, Woolwich, SE18 6HQ
I'm thinking I may still be ok where I park (not saying where that is )
Please note
Within the Charlton ‘C’ CPZ, parking bays in several roads are to remain free and unrestricted. Vehicles being parked in these bays will not require a parking permit. Match day parking controls will not apply to in parking bay that is marked with a sign that includes the blue P symbol and ‘Free’. The roads in which ‘Free’ parking bays are located are highlighted and marked as “Charlton ‘C’ CPZ Permit Exemption Area” in the overview map which can be viewed by clicking the link below.
However, on match days, the operational hours of any single yellow line, within any of the roads in the Permit Exemption Areas, will extend to 9pm, unless there is a yellow sign indicating alternative operational hours apply to a particular length of yellow line.
I'm thinking I may still be ok where I park (not saying where that is )
Please note
Within the Charlton ‘C’ CPZ, parking bays in several roads are to remain free and unrestricted. Vehicles being parked in these bays will not require a parking permit. Match day parking controls will not apply to in parking bay that is marked with a sign that includes the blue P symbol and ‘Free’. The roads in which ‘Free’ parking bays are located are highlighted and marked as “Charlton ‘C’ CPZ Permit Exemption Area” in the overview map which can be viewed by clicking the link below.
However, on match days, the operational hours of any single yellow line, within any of the roads in the Permit Exemption Areas, will extend to 9pm, unless there is a yellow sign indicating alternative operational hours apply to a particular length of yellow line.
Was this on the updated version rather than the original? if so I think I *might* be okay too where I park in my undisclosed location
Everyone is,that’s why there is this debate…for some easy,easier or not a bloody chance…Greenwich borough in a nutshell have literally fucked us over…🤬
The sensible thing would be having a match day agreement in place with one of the nearby retail carparks that has anpr whereby people can register their cars fo a small fee to stay for a set longer time. But the club has a car park with a circa 250 car capacity and imo they should at least be offering quite a percentage of those who this will genuinely affect (perhaps blue badge holders) rather than selling the spaces at hugely inflated prices as part of hospitality and match day packages.
I don't know the exact capacity of the West Stand car park but that must be in the right ball park.
So, take out the spaces used by the players, including those that aren't playing but just pitch up, match officials, senior club staff, directors (and ex-directors), the away team's directors/representatives, Charlton TV presenters, other clubs' scouts, Chris Parkes & Keith Peacock, media people, the catering truck, two ambulances and the Charlton minibus and there are maybe, let's guess, 150/175 left. Some of those get lost for the O/B trucks if the match is televised.
I have one of those spaces. The club gets £6k from me a season. If I don't get the space, I don't come to the games: it would be the end for me and the club lose money. In my case that would just be my choice because I don't want to park my car anywhere on the streets of SE7. (And I am not travelling from deepest rural Essex to Charlton by public transport.) But someone who is buying hospitality for a business will not want to be dragging their match guests around the streets of South London at any time of the year, let alone in the Winter when it is raining. The loses to the club through giving up any of those precious parking spaces would be huge, especially in terms of sponsorship deals. In any event, that is just scratching at the surface of the problem.
Edited to add: Just knock down the stadium and build a multi-story car park that would solve the problem.
I don’t know for sure but imagine most of the 75-100 spaces you mention for players/directors and others etc are a choice by the club rather than a league requirement otherwise I wonder how clubs like qpr, Fulham and Luton off the top of my head cope. The point I am trying to make is it’s a bit rich if the club approach RBG saying the restrictions are affecting less able peoples ability to attend whilst doing nothing but rake it in or offer as perks numerous spaces they are in control of.
Match day and it's tipping down - not an incentive to travel by Public transport to the Valley. Three mile drive (or walk!) to station - pay for car park there, then fifty minutes on train to London Bridge then another train to Charlton.
Like others we park around Hornfair Road, but as others have mentioned. once the parking zones come in the cars will be pushed to this end of Charlton and there won't be enough spaces.
I do use my car carefully but living in a village a car is essential as we have no public transport here.
Would be good to know what the following have been doing about this issue as this has not all of a sudden come up (in VOTV 18 months ago and this thread well over a month ago):-
The Club The Trust The Fans Advisors The Fans Forum
It least we now know what the Trust are doing.
A survey.
This has been an issue for a long time, this should have been raised a long time ago.
Everyone is,that’s why there is this debate…for some easy,easier or not a bloody chance…Greenwich borough in a nutshell have literally fucked us over…🤬
And also the club as I fear many will cease attending matches.
Everyone is,that’s why there is this debate…for some easy,easier or not a bloody chance…Greenwich borough in a nutshell have literally fucked us over…🤬
Yep, their biggest attack on us since the 10-2 Planning defeat.
Comments
Looks like we won't be coming to matches by train until next season.
As a resident, I don't disagree with the action but I do understand the frustration of anyone who has to drive to the football.
They are only 5, and my grandson has a grandfather who is a palace supporter, I dread to think he would be going to that place!!!!!!!.
I rarely park on a yellow line, and appreciate I no longer live in South east London, and that parking is at a premium, but this does seem disproportionate to what is at present a dwindling attendance for most matches.
Seems to me that with Ulez, and now parking issues it is becoming increasingly more difficult to attend matches these days. As others have suggested this needs to be at least discussed with the club, which it appears not to have been done, unless I have misunderstood things.
I'm sure there is a way around this, but when I lived in Bexley people used to park in our road because of the trains, going to London, I never got annoyed unless they parked over our driveway!.
I hope there is solution, otherwise I fear for the economic effects on the club, as others have expressed.
There must be many who, for reasons of health, time, cost and/or lack of suitable public transport connections from where they live will find this parking issue a great disincentive to attend matches.
I suggest this is going to make it extremely difficult for the club to increase attendance - quite the reverse is likely to happen, especially amongst non-season ticket holders like me, who have not paid up front for the season. It looks unlikely that Greenwich Council will row back on their ill-conceived scheme, so maybe the club itself needs to be proactive in trying to get local retail parks to make (paid for) spaces available at a reasonable cost?
I notice above someone has acquainted Steve Sutherland with the issue. I hope someone with contacts to Charlie Methven has also pointed out to him this very real threat to his "break even" ambitions.
The Club
The Trust
The Fans Advisors
The Fans Forum
mayor@royalgreenwich.gov.U.K.
So, take out the spaces used by the players, including those that aren't playing but just pitch up, match officials, senior club staff, directors (and ex-directors), the away team's directors/representatives, Charlton TV presenters, other clubs' scouts, Chris Parkes & Keith Peacock, media people, the catering truck, two ambulances and the Charlton minibus and there are maybe, let's guess, 150/175 left. Some of those get lost for the O/B trucks if the match is televised.
I have one of those spaces. The club gets £6k from me a season. If I don't get the space, I don't come to the games: it would be the end for me and the club lose money. In my case that would just be my choice because I don't want to park my car anywhere on the streets of SE7. (And I am not travelling from deepest rural Essex to Charlton by public transport.) But someone who is buying hospitality for a business will not want to be dragging their match guests around the streets of South London at any time of the year, let alone in the Winter when it is raining. The loses to the club through giving up any of those precious parking spaces would be huge, especially in terms of sponsorship deals. In any event, that is just scratching at the surface of the problem.
Edited to add: Just knock down the stadium and build a multi-story car park that would solve the problem.
I am generally pro public transport and the staton is an asset, but for various reasons it is not reliable or efficient. I can drive to The Valley in 75 minutes but the rail journey takes twice that. This was the point of Valley Express but it is a long while since the club demonstrated any understanding of its purpose. Indeed at the Exeter game it appeared to announce it was an alternative to using the Blackwall Tunnel, even though no coaches go north of the river.
This isn’t even about whether regular fans will make the effort, it’s about whether new or casual ones will. It cannot do other than damage revenue and undermine the club accordingly.
The council and the club should have been round the table looking for solutions and alternatives from the outset. There are responsibilities on both sides but if the club did not know about it, as suggested, then questions need to be asked of those responsible.
So we now use the train from Dartford, but having moved house we now have a 30 minute drive beforehand. We park in the station car park and the club’s efforts to reduce attendances have ensured we can always get a space. However, should the unthinkable happen and attendances rise then this option becomes problematic.
The timetable, when there are no strikes or engineering works, would have you believe there are 4 trains an hour but in reality it’s only 2 as they come in pairs !
Please note
Within the Charlton ‘C’ CPZ, parking bays in several roads are to remain free and unrestricted. Vehicles being parked in these bays will not require a parking permit. Match day parking controls will not apply to in parking bay that is marked with a sign that includes the blue P symbol and ‘Free’. The roads in which ‘Free’ parking bays are located are highlighted and marked as “Charlton ‘C’ CPZ Permit Exemption Area” in the overview map which can be viewed by clicking the link below.
However, on match days, the operational hours of any single yellow line, within any of the roads in the Permit Exemption Areas, will extend to 9pm, unless there is a yellow sign indicating alternative operational hours apply to a particular length of yellow line.
The point I am trying to make is it’s a bit rich if the club approach RBG saying the restrictions are affecting less able peoples ability to attend whilst doing nothing but rake it in or offer as perks numerous spaces they are in control of.
Like others we park around Hornfair Road, but as others have mentioned. once the parking zones come in the cars will be pushed to this end of Charlton and there won't be enough spaces.
I do use my car carefully but living in a village a car is essential as we have no public transport here.
A survey.
This has been an issue for a long time, this should have been raised a long time ago.