This is good if only because it challenges the few remaining dinosaurs, those who take for granted their car and think they have some god given right to use it, to consider other, better options. Once the issues are addressed and representations made, we should have less congested and polluting streets in this part of Greenwich at least.
So you want Charlton to go out of business then? Proper weird comment even by your anti car comments.
Where have i said i want Charlton to go out of business? I have suggested the new scheme definition as proposed for consultation will make certain people re-think their journey, and said i think that's a good thing.
We're losing @£8M pa and it would appear that the scheme could drastically cut our attendances, due to the dinosaur supporters (thanks for that insult) being unable to attend on a regular basis.
I would think that makes our club extremely vulnerable, you obviously don't. Not everyone can get to The Valley in 15 minutes by train.
As a matter of interest how many Charlton fans do get on the train between Belvedere and Charlton?
I knew this was coming, and I really wouldn't mind if football fans were taking up residents spaces or making it hard for residents to park but we aren't. Ive worked around Charlton and its one of the easiest places in London to work as there are lovely wide roads, hardly any vehicles the closer you get to the station and ground, can easily set up road works guarding and park work vans. Around other grounds I understand it too when they aren't well linked but people who live in Charlton could make a claim for not needing a car full stop, not like somewhere like Gillingham.
Its already a pain in the arse with the trains being fucked more often than not
Belvedere. You'd be welcome. 15 minutes by train to charlton from there.
Free parking.
4 trains an hour usually.
Not a bad shout that. What's it like for parking around the station on Saturday afternoons?
No issues. I usually walk down to the station but when i've driven there's always been parking either on the main road or a side street. Possibly similar at Erith and Slade Green, neither of which i've parked at. This may not last now the secret is out.
Abbey Wood area, quite near the station, has plenty of parking too at weekends, and outside of 1-3pm weekdays i think. Abbey wood is pretty well served by busses too from Bexleyheath and other areas i think.
Wait a minute. You called people dinosaurs who think they have a god given right to use their car to drive to the football but you live in Belvedere and drive to Belvedere Station. Brilliant 🤣
This is good if only because it challenges the few remaining dinosaurs, those who take for granted their car and think they have some god given right to use it, to consider other, better options. Once the issues are addressed and representations made, we should have less congested and polluting streets in this part of Greenwich at least.
So you want Charlton to go out of business then? Proper weird comment even by your anti car comments.
Where have i said i want Charlton to go out of business? I have suggested the new scheme definition as proposed for consultation will make certain people re-think their journey, and said i think that's a good thing.
We're losing @£8M pa and it would appear that the scheme could drastically cut our attendances, due to the dinosaur supporters (thanks for that insult) being unable to attend on a regular basis.
I would think that makes our club extremely vulnerable, you obviously don't. Not everyone can get to The Valley in 15 minutes by train.
As a matter of interest how many Charlton fans do get on the train between Belvedere and Charlton?
Possibly 100-200 on average, but hard to tell. I may be way out.
I would agree the club is vulnerable and firm representations need to be made on this, from the club and/or the Trust, which i'm sure will follow. That shouldn't detract from the fact that individuals may want to re-consider their travel choices, assuming they don't want to be hit with parking fines.
I thought i was clear in my use of the term dinosaurs; not meant as a general insult but specifically to those clinging on to the notion that their comfort should come first and who haven't yet considered non-car options. There are a few remaining of that kind, as i stated (just my opinion but i think it's clear from some of the reactions and over-reactions here!), that are yet to be persuaded towards other travel options. They remind me of dinosaurs in that the world is changing around them but for whatever reason, they feel got at and not ready to adapt.
As an aside, not directly related to match parking issues, i find it interesting (and a bit alarming) that we have fans who don't know there's a station called North Greenwich quite nearby, well served by busses, and on the jubilee line, also that the Southeastern loop line still runs from Bexleyheath direct to Charlton, (2 trains an hour). I think awareness of these and other options, will improve if or when parking gets even harder- and no bad thing too. But we really need vastly improved public transport options, generally and especially for matchdays at Charlton, as pat of a plan for success and expansion of the fanbase back to what it was.
Belvedere. You'd be welcome. 15 minutes by train to charlton from there.
Free parking.
4 trains an hour usually.
Not a bad shout that. What's it like for parking around the station on Saturday afternoons?
No issues. I usually walk down to the station but when i've driven there's always been parking either on the main road or a side street. Possibly similar at Erith and Slade Green, neither of which i've parked at. This may not last now the secret is out.
Abbey Wood area, quite near the station, has plenty of parking too at weekends, and outside of 1-3pm weekdays i think. Abbey wood is pretty well served by busses too from Bexleyheath and other areas i think.
Wait a minute. You called people dinosaurs who think they have a god given right to use their car to drive to the football but you live in Belvedere and drive to Belvedere Station. Brilliant 🤣
Belvedere. You'd be welcome. 15 minutes by train to charlton from there.
Free parking.
4 trains an hour usually.
Not a bad shout that. What's it like for parking around the station on Saturday afternoons?
No issues. I usually walk down to the station but when i've driven there's always been parking either on the main road or a side street. Possibly similar at Erith and Slade Green, neither of which i've parked at. This may not last now the secret is out.
Abbey Wood area, quite near the station, has plenty of parking too at weekends, and outside of 1-3pm weekdays i think. Abbey wood is pretty well served by busses too from Bexleyheath and other areas i think.
Wait a minute. You called people dinosaurs who think they have a god given right to use their car to drive to the football but you live in Belvedere and drive to Belvedere Station. Brilliant 🤣
You ain't keeping up 'mate'.
Good one 'pal'. Next time you drive to Belvedere Station from erm Belvedere, maybe think of a non-car option to getting to Belvedere station 👍
I suggest that everyone here send an email similar to this to: parking-design@royalgreenwich.gov.uk
Hi All
I have no idea what you are
proposing it is not clear or easy to tell. It seems that you are
proposing to start a 8.30am to 9pm regime in Charlton every day of the
week including Christmas Day too. Have you made this clear in the
information you have sent to residents. Can you send me a link to the
consultation and documents you have sent to residents.
Charlton as a football club are not progressing so I have no idea why that would be necessary.
Look forward to getting links to the documents which actually show your proposals your current documents/web don't.
And copies of what the residents have been asked and whether it includes every bank holiday restrictions.
I suggest that everyone here send an email similar to this to: parking-design@royalgreenwich.gov.uk
Hi All
I have no idea what you are
proposing it is not clear or easy to tell. It seems that you are
proposing to start a 8.30am to 9pm regime in Charlton every day of the
week including Christmas Day too. Have you made this clear in the
information you have sent to residents. Can you send me a link to the
consultation and documents you have sent to residents.
Charlton as a football club are not progressing so I have no idea why that would be necessary.
Look forward to getting links to the documents which actually show your proposals your current documents/web don't.
And copies of what the residents have been asked and whether it includes every bank holiday restrictions.
This is good if only because it challenges the few remaining dinosaurs, those who take for granted their car and think they have some god given right to use it, to consider other, better options. Once the issues are addressed and representations made, we should have less congested and polluting streets in this part of Greenwich at least.
So you want Charlton to go out of business then? Proper weird comment even by your anti car comments.
Where have i said i want Charlton to go out of business? I have suggested the new scheme definition as proposed for consultation will make certain people re-think their journey, and said i think that's a good thing.
We're losing @£8M pa and it would appear that the scheme could drastically cut our attendances, due to the dinosaur supporters (thanks for that insult) being unable to attend on a regular basis.
I would think that makes our club extremely vulnerable, you obviously don't. Not everyone can get to The Valley in 15 minutes by train.
As a matter of interest how many Charlton fans do get on the train between Belvedere and Charlton?
Possibly 100-200 on average, but hard to tell. I may be way out.
I would agree the club is vulnerable and firm representations need to be made on this, from the club and/or the Trust, which i'm sure will follow. That shouldn't detract from the fact that individuals may want to re-consider their travel choices, assuming they don't want to be hit with parking fines.
I thought i was clear in my use of the term dinosaurs; not meant as a general insult but specifically to those clinging on to the notion that their comfort should come first and who haven't yet considered non-car options. There are a few remaining of that kind, as i stated (just my opinion but i think it's clear from some of the reactions and over-reactions here!), that are yet to be persuaded towards other travel options. They remind me of dinosaurs in that the world is changing around them but for whatever reason, they feel got at and not ready to adapt.
As an aside, not directly related to match parking issues, i find it interesting (and a bit alarming) that we have fans who don't know there's a station called North Greenwich quite nearby, well served by busses, and on the jubilee line, also that the Southeastern loop line still runs from Bexleyheath direct to Charlton, (2 trains an hour). I think awareness of these and other options, will improve if or when parking gets even harder- and no bad thing too. But we really need vastly improved public transport options, generally and especially for matchdays at Charlton, as pat of a plan for success and expansion of the fanbase back to what it was.
Instead of calling people dinosaurs for not being persuaded towards other travel options perhaps you need to actually read what people are saying when public transport options are simply not possible or add to the duration of someone's travel time and expense than driving.
It might be alright for you having a route to the ground in 15 mins by train but not everybody else has that luxury. Even loop trains every 30 mins means you could have driven home before the train even arrives! Probably only anyone who lives near a train station that runs directly to Charlton or are able to jump on 1 direct bus from outside there house would be the ones able to get to the ground just as quickly or faster than someone in a car and would be able to leave the car behind.
I really do think you're under-estimating the potential scale of the issue at hand here. People are literally being forced off the road and onto public transport where the infrastructure just isn't good enough even if it has improved somewhat in the last 20-30 years.
What happens if we get another Doncaster type play off game at The Valley do you really expect public transport to be able to cope with 25k or so Charlton fans all heading for the train station or bus stops at the same time? it's ridiculous to think it can work, as Airman said, heads should roll if this is allowed to proceed.
I don’t know how many people still use Twitter but I posted something on there last night and it would be great if others took up the mantle today and helped generate a bit of momentum.
Interesting the Council has already changed tonight the wording of what was put on that link this afternoon. It was…
And it’s now…
Match day parking control
The Council is proposing to introduce match day parking restrictions and additional controls in the areas surrounding the Charlton Athletic football stadium.
The areas in which match day parking controls are proposed are the areas covered by both the Charlton ‘C’ and Charlton Station ‘CS’ Controlled Parking Zones (CPZs), for which a consultation was held earlier this year and are due to come into operation this December.
Provision for match day parking controls did not form part of the original consultation for the Charlton ‘C’ and Charlton Station ‘CS’ CPZs, but concerns were raised about the impact of match day parking during that consultation. In response to those concerns, we have sought to open a further consultation at the earliest opportunity, specific to a proposal to introduce match day parking controls.
Match Day parking restrictions are common, not only in areas surrounding many of London’s major sports stadiums, but also stadiums of a similar size throughout the country. Their purpose is to prioritise parking for local residents, businesses and their visitors on match days, which can otherwise be filled by visitors to the stadium. They also seek to reduce car use by encouraging supporters to use more sustainable modes of transport.
What are we proposing?
We are proposing to extend parking restrictions from the current 6.30pm, until 9pm on each day there is a football match at the Charlton Athletic stadium (The Valley). The proposal also includes for match day parking controls to operate when matches are played on Sundays and Public Holidays, which would not be covered by the existing CPZ parking controls.
Not only do the proposed time periods cover all expected kick-off times, but they also consider minimising the visual impact of the road signs that will be necessary to convey information to drivers. For matches that continue beyond 9pm, supporters will have already arrived at the stadium prior to kick-off. Maintaining parking controls beyond 9pm is therefore considered unnecessary.
Proposed days and hours of operation also consider the potential impact of Charlton Athletic progressing into a higher division, where kick-off times are more likely to be more varied than at present. In doing so, we are seeking to futureproof the proposals also seek to avoid issues that may occur as a result of increased match attendances, should Charlton Athletic progress to the Championship or the Premier League.
Alternative options for match day operations have been considered. But variations on days and hours of operation can result in much larger signs that can be overly complex and more difficult to understand. An example of the type of road sign that would be present if match day parking controls are introduced is proved below. This alongside an alternative option, in which the time periods are more varied.
Please note
Within the Charlton ‘C’ CPZ, parking bays in several roads are to remain free and unrestricted. Vehicles being parked in these bays will not require a parking permit. Match day parking controls will not apply to in parking bay that is marked with a sign that includes the blue P symbol and ‘Free’. The roads in which ‘Free’ parking bays are located are highlighted and marked as “Charlton ‘C’ CPZ Permit Exemption Area” in the overview map which can be viewed by clicking the link below.
However, on match days, the operational hours of any single yellow line, within any of the roads in the Permit Exemption Areas, will extend to 9pm, unless there is a yellow sign indicating alternative operational hours apply to a particular length of yellow line.
How to have your say?
The consultation will close on Wednesday 8 November at 5pm. View the overview map below and let us know your thoughts by submitting any comments regarding the proposed scheme plans, these will be required in writing during this 21 day consultation to either:
email: parking-design@royalgreenwich.gov.uk or
Parking Design Team, The Woolwich Centre, 35 Wellington Street, Woolwich, SE18 6HQ
How can you have a consultation on a written proposal and reword the proposal halfway through?
It shows there was insufficient consideration of the original wording. I would be embarrassed if I were them. The whole thing is badly thought through and obviously badly worded.
I am still unsure from the wording as to whether it's the local residents AND businesses that are allowed visitors or just local businesses. If it's both, then how will that work in practice?
What local businesses do they mean? All the "local" businesses around the Valley have their own car parks.
Surely Charlton Athletic Football Club a local business and one which brings trade to other local businesses? They should be looking to help, not hinder.
One solution in my eyes would be to link up with nearby car parks for a park and ride scheme. The car park at IKEA is half full at most at any one time, yhere's a multi storey one near the O2 that is rarely used, even on concert nights it doesn't fill up most of the time, and a couple in Woolwich town centre that have capacities far bigger than current needs (the Sainsbury's one for instance)
Combine that with the overflow parking that isn't ever used at Stone Lake Retail Park, you've got the beginnings of a network of places not too far from The Valley (some within walking distance) that could actually handle the capacity, and make more money too, be it through the club paying a lump sum or through subscriptions
One solution in my eyes would be to link up with nearby car parks for a park and ride scheme. The car park at IKEA is half full at most at any one time, yhere's a multi storey one near the O2 that is rarely used, even on concert nights it doesn't fill up most of the time, and a couple in Woolwich town centre that have capacities far bigger than current needs (the Sainsbury's one for instance)
Combine that with the overflow parking that isn't ever used at Stone Lake Retail Park, you've got the beginnings of a network of places not too far from The Valley (some within walking distance) that could actually handle the capacity, and make more money too, be it through the club paying a lump sum or through subscriptions
Soon as this comes in there will be an army of traffic wardens sent out at every home game to try and make the council (and themselves) extra money. The whole scheme stinks. And who are these local businesses that they are trying to protect or increase anyway?? I woulda thought CAFC would be one??
The roads around Charlton are rarely packed. When we were successful they were but it still wasn't too much of a hassle for the residents or supporters. Tbh if you live near a football ground who's team is successful what do you expect?
For many fans of a certain age, who may also have ongoing medical conditions, this will probably mean the end of them attending matches. So not only will they miss the games, the club will be denied matchday revenue - tickets, refreshments, club shop etc. The transport system is unreliable; engineering works, strikes etc. Even when we had regular attendances of 27,000, although busy, the parking system worked....and that lasted for seven years. Lets be fair, this is all about revenue gathering form the Council- they couldn't give a toss about people's welfare.
Got a letter through this morning saying its all going ahead as planned & work will start putting up signs in the next couple of weeks Most who live around here don't go to our games & are well happy with it going ahead
One solution in my eyes would be to link up with nearby car parks for a park and ride scheme. The car park at IKEA is half full at most at any one time, yhere's a multi storey one near the O2 that is rarely used, even on concert nights it doesn't fill up most of the time, and a couple in Woolwich town centre that have capacities far bigger than current needs (the Sainsbury's one for instance)
Combine that with the overflow parking that isn't ever used at Stone Lake Retail Park, you've got the beginnings of a network of places not too far from The Valley (some within walking distance) that could actually handle the capacity, and make more money too, be it through the club paying a lump sum or through subscriptions
Sorry but that sounds far too sensible.
But what will happen is the club, council or operator will see a pound note in this and invent a penal fee rather than just an effective solution.
One solution in my eyes would be to link up with nearby car parks for a park and ride scheme. The car park at IKEA is half full at most at any one time, yhere's a multi storey one near the O2 that is rarely used, even on concert nights it doesn't fill up most of the time, and a couple in Woolwich town centre that have capacities far bigger than current needs (the Sainsbury's one for instance)
Combine that with the overflow parking that isn't ever used at Stone Lake Retail Park, you've got the beginnings of a network of places not too far from The Valley (some within walking distance) that could actually handle the capacity, and make more money too, be it through the club paying a lump sum or through subscriptions
I mentioned this as an option on our return to The Valley as the council were concerned about parking back then. Obviously it wasn't needed, now the park and ride could do with starting on the edge of the ULEZ zone as I'm convinced this is causing a decline on attendances too.
If the council can't be made to see sense, or a viable work around sorted, I can't see anyone investing in the club and we won't have one as a direct result.
Quite simply this will make matchday parking borderline impossible. Like it or not we have a support that is largely not local and many in advanced years who rely solely on driving. This is catastrophic for the club imo and a huge great noise needs to be made about this.
I can’t believe the Club have either not been in consultation about it or not made any noise
As I mentioned on Page 1, driving is my only realistic option of getting myself and grandson to home games. Public transport is a no-no from where we live.
At this rate unless the club relocates to Norfolk I can't see myself going in future seasons because trains/buses are too expensive (especially when compared to the less than half a tank of fuel it takes me to drive to The Valley and back) and I'll have nowhere to park within a reasonable walking distance of the ground.
But even if the rail fare from Norfolk is too much (and a Network Railcard will get you 1/3rd off from Kings Lynn) you could park up somewhere inside Greater London and come in by tube/bus?
In some ways you're in a better position than fans from Kent who have to rely on Southeastern...
There comes a time when the arse-ache involved in getting to the ground far outweighs any possible pleasure/duty of actually being there.
If your test for attending is whether the effort getting to the ground outweighs the pleasure from watching the game, that may be an issue even if you live in Floyd Road.
Comments
I would think that makes our club extremely vulnerable, you obviously don't.
Not everyone can get to The Valley in 15 minutes by train.
As a matter of interest how many Charlton fans do get on the train between Belvedere and Charlton?
Its already a pain in the arse with the trains being fucked more often than not
I would agree the club is vulnerable and firm representations need to be made on this, from the club and/or the Trust, which i'm sure will follow. That shouldn't detract from the fact that individuals may want to re-consider their travel choices, assuming they don't want to be hit with parking fines.
I thought i was clear in my use of the term dinosaurs; not meant as a general insult but specifically to those clinging on to the notion that their comfort should come first and who haven't yet considered non-car options. There are a few remaining of that kind, as i stated (just my opinion but i think it's clear from some of the reactions and over-reactions here!), that are yet to be persuaded towards other travel options. They remind me of dinosaurs in that the world is changing around them but for whatever reason, they feel got at and not ready to adapt.
As an aside, not directly related to match parking issues, i find it interesting (and a bit alarming) that we have fans who don't know there's a station called North Greenwich quite nearby, well served by busses, and on the jubilee line, also that the Southeastern loop line still runs from Bexleyheath direct to Charlton, (2 trains an hour). I think awareness of these and other options, will improve if or when parking gets even harder- and no bad thing too. But we really need vastly improved public transport options, generally and especially for matchdays at Charlton, as pat of a plan for success and expansion of the fanbase back to what it was.
It might be alright for you having a route to the ground in 15 mins by train but not everybody else has that luxury. Even loop trains every 30 mins means you could have driven home before the train even arrives! Probably only anyone who lives near a train station that runs directly to Charlton or are able to jump on 1 direct bus from outside there house would be the ones able to get to the ground just as quickly or faster than someone in a car and would be able to leave the car behind.
I really do think you're under-estimating the potential scale of the issue at hand here. People are literally being forced off the road and onto public transport where the infrastructure just isn't good enough even if it has improved somewhat in the last 20-30 years.
What happens if we get another Doncaster type play off game at The Valley do you really expect public transport to be able to cope with 25k or so Charlton fans all heading for the train station or bus stops at the same time? it's ridiculous to think it can work, as Airman said, heads should roll if this is allowed to proceed.
(It's an app. Not an instruction.) Lol
https://x.com/charltonlife/status/1714720761439543463?s=46&t=bUwHzB3vewuSGMxFWwvDZw
It shows there was insufficient consideration of the original wording.
I would be embarrassed if I were them.
The whole thing is badly thought through and obviously badly worded.
I am still unsure from the wording as to whether it's the local residents AND businesses that are allowed visitors or just local businesses. If it's both, then how will that work in practice?
Combine that with the overflow parking that isn't ever used at Stone Lake Retail Park, you've got the beginnings of a network of places not too far from The Valley (some within walking distance) that could actually handle the capacity, and make more money too, be it through the club paying a lump sum or through subscriptions
The roads around Charlton are rarely packed. When we were successful they were but it still wasn't too much of a hassle for the residents or supporters. Tbh if you live near a football ground who's team is successful what do you expect?
Most who live around here don't go to our games & are well happy with it going ahead
If the council can't be made to see sense, or a viable work around sorted, I can't see anyone investing in the club and we won't have one as a direct result.