Has Bowyer lost it?

LB has the support of both Steve Brown and Robert Lee thats good enough for me

bertpalmer said:

LB has the support of both Steve Brown and Robert Lee thats good enough for me

I don’t think Valley Pass pundits are going to start calling for the managers head.

Croydon said:

Leuth said:

I make Bowyer right. We're certainly overerchieving

😂 Eh? Bowyer in crowd are almost a cult at this point. He could say the earth was a triangle and you'd all agree

It's a square.

I'm only going to say I think the point is moot. He'll be here the rest of the season and that's when a decision will be made. 

I do think that anything short of top six should (and will) mean goodbye but TS is going to be the one to make that call whatever we say on here.

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

ForeverAddickted said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

Scoham said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

Leeds_Addick said:

I think the defence is our issue and there's not an alternative manager that would get more out of them.

If we get Inniss and Famewo back then the side will look completely different but time is running out in terms of this season.

Think he deserves the season and especially when he hasn't had his first choice centre backs for over half of it.

Tired of the flip flopping depending on whether we win or lose.

Are you seriously saying that no other manager could have done a better job? 

No doubt some would get more from this squad - plenty would do similar or worse too, think Slade, Parkinson, Robinson and personally I’d include Powell in that group as well.

I’d want a big rebuild if we somehow went up with this squad, it would seriously struggle in the Championship.

I find it difficult to blame Bowyer and Gallen for that when they had to sign over 10 players in two weeks with the salary cap in place. I think it’s safe to assume very few promotion sides have been built in similar circumstances.

I’m not fully Bowyer in or out at the moment. For me if we change manager it’s probably
not going to resolve the main issues, I see it more likely to end in the way Powell’s first season did and we’d come to accept this squad isn’t quite up to it. Too many players who are good on paper and yet at the same time many of them we’d happily replace in the summer.

It’ll be interesting to see what TS does if
anything over the next few months. A few decisions could be the difference between his plan and ambition coming together or several years of us sloshing around in this league.

Powell inherited a hopeless squad from Parky and couldn't do anything with them - Parky was pretty unfairly sacked in my view given the dross he was working with then.

Bowyer has a much better squad than Parky had and we're basically showing relegation form over the last 18 games - a bit more than a blip. He's underachieving and if he continues like this he fully deserves the sack. The patience of TS will run out...

Every six months bring in a manager if things are not going well?

I thought Bowyer had been in charge since March 2018 so nearly three years now. He's done a very poor job this season up to now going by results and performances.

If there's no upturn by the end of the season he deserves the sack. 

I think what Elfs is saying is that when people call for Bowyer to be sacked they like to repeat the stat of X number of wins in 21 (?) games... On that basis he's saying that any Manager who has a similar run should also be sacked

100%

Managers ultimately get sacked if they're doing badly and under perform - if Lee doesn't meet the expectations of the owner he will be removed. If TS is happy with Lee's performance then Lee will have nothing to worry about.

Croydon said:

Leuth said:

I make Bowyer right. We're certainly overerchieving

😂 Eh? Bowyer in crowd are almost a cult at this point. He could say the earth was a triangle and you'd all agree

At least a triangle consistently gets three points!

I’ve  slaughtered Bowyer in the past but not today.

Two of those goals today were straight out of the Premier league. I have never seen goals of the quality we’ve been seeing at our place ever in league one.

our performances have definitely improved in the last few weeks. We are retaining possession for a start. There was a bad vibe in the place. The digging players out. The chopping and changing. It’s all stopped
The squad wasn’t right at the start of the season. When have you ever known players to be hooked and moved on halfway through a season?
I can’t remember it before.

If he has to go, he has to go. But things have definitely improved,even if results are not showing that yet.

ElfsborgAddick said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

ForeverAddickted said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

Scoham said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

Leeds_Addick said:

I think the defence is our issue and there's not an alternative manager that would get more out of them.

If we get Inniss and Famewo back then the side will look completely different but time is running out in terms of this season.

Think he deserves the season and especially when he hasn't had his first choice centre backs for over half of it.

Tired of the flip flopping depending on whether we win or lose.

Are you seriously saying that no other manager could have done a better job? 

No doubt some would get more from this squad - plenty would do similar or worse too, think Slade, Parkinson, Robinson and personally I’d include Powell in that group as well.

I’d want a big rebuild if we somehow went up with this squad, it would seriously struggle in the Championship.

I find it difficult to blame Bowyer and Gallen for that when they had to sign over 10 players in two weeks with the salary cap in place. I think it’s safe to assume very few promotion sides have been built in similar circumstances.

I’m not fully Bowyer in or out at the moment. For me if we change manager it’s probably
not going to resolve the main issues, I see it more likely to end in the way Powell’s first season did and we’d come to accept this squad isn’t quite up to it. Too many players who are good on paper and yet at the same time many of them we’d happily replace in the summer.

It’ll be interesting to see what TS does if
anything over the next few months. A few decisions could be the difference between his plan and ambition coming together or several years of us sloshing around in this league.

Powell inherited a hopeless squad from Parky and couldn't do anything with them - Parky was pretty unfairly sacked in my view given the dross he was working with then.

Bowyer has a much better squad than Parky had and we're basically showing relegation form over the last 18 games - a bit more than a blip. He's underachieving and if he continues like this he fully deserves the sack. The patience of TS will run out...

Every six months bring in a manager if things are not going well?

I thought Bowyer had been in charge since March 2018 so nearly three years now. He's done a very poor job this season up to now going by results and performances.

If there's no upturn by the end of the season he deserves the sack. 

I think what Elfs is saying is that when people call for Bowyer to be sacked they like to repeat the stat of X number of wins in 21 (?) games... On that basis he's saying that any Manager who has a similar run should also be sacked

100%

Managers ultimately get sacked if they're doing badly and under perform - if Lee doesn't meet the expectations of the owner he will be removed. If TS is happy with Lee's performance then Lee will have nothing to worry about.

Sandgaard was quoted as saying he wanted promotion in two years.  He believed in Bowyer.

Bowyer, being realistic, has until December 2021 maximum.

I believe he’ll go if we don’t get top 6 this season. Is Sandgaard going to believe he’ll be the man to take us up if we finish 9th or so this season, I can’t see it. 

I know he gets bombarded with messages on Twitter, but I'd be interested to know if TS reads this forum.  I'm guessing not, but it would give him an insight into the waning support for Bowyer in recent weeks that he wouldn't get from watching games as there are no crowds 

Gravesend_Addick said:

I know he gets bombarded with messages on Twitter, but I'd be interested to know if TS reads this forum.  I'm guessing not, but it would give him an insight into the waning support for Bowyer in recent weeks that he wouldn't get from watching games as there are no crowds 

An opinion is that 'others' answer Sandgaard.

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

Scoham said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

Leeds_Addick said:

I think the defence is our issue and there's not an alternative manager that would get more out of them.

If we get Inniss and Famewo back then the side will look completely different but time is running out in terms of this season.

Think he deserves the season and especially when he hasn't had his first choice centre backs for over half of it.

Tired of the flip flopping depending on whether we win or lose.

Are you seriously saying that no other manager could have done a better job? 

No doubt some would get more from this squad - plenty would do similar or worse too, think Slade, Parkinson, Robinson and personally I’d include Powell in that group as well.

I’d want a big rebuild if we somehow went up with this squad, it would seriously struggle in the Championship.

I find it difficult to blame Bowyer and Gallen for that when they had to sign over 10 players in two weeks with the salary cap in place. I think it’s safe to assume very few promotion sides have been built in similar circumstances.

I’m not fully Bowyer in or out at the moment. For me if we change manager it’s probably
not going to resolve the main issues, I see it more likely to end in the way Powell’s first season did and we’d come to accept this squad isn’t quite up to it. Too many players who are good on paper and yet at the same time many of them we’d happily replace in the summer.

It’ll be interesting to see what TS does if
anything over the next few months. A few decisions could be the difference between his plan and ambition coming together or several years of us sloshing around in this league.

Powell inherited a hopeless squad from Parky and couldn't do anything with them - Parky was pretty unfairly sacked in my view given the dross he was working with then.

Bowyer has a much better squad than Parky had and we're basically showing relegation form over the last 18 games - a bit more than a blip. He's underachieving and if he continues like this he fully deserves the sack. The patience of TS will run out...

Easy to call that squad dross now but at the time many didn't agree and wanted both Parky and later Powell sacked. In a year or two I don't think we as a fanbase we will rate this squad as highly as we do now.

MrLargo said:

shine166 said:

MrLargo said:

Another defeat for Liverpool today. 2 wins from the last 7 games, not won at home since mid-December. 

Van Dijk's injured, blah, blah, blah, Gomez is injured, blah, blah, blah. As if that's a reasonable excuse! Klopp's clearly lost it, bloke hasn't got a clue. Can't believe they've not sacked him yet and brought in Paul Jones or Danny Cowley.

Good comparison if it wasn't for Liverpools succes over the last few years 

Yeah I know, ridiculous comparison by me. Klopp's barely spent a penny, whereas Bowyer's had his pick of lower league free transfers and inexperienced loanees. I bet Klopp would have jumped at the chance to sign Macaulay Bonne for £100k and Deli Oshilaja on a free. And Bowyer had the advantage of Lyle Taylor refusing to play, whilst poor old Jurgen had to put up with Mo Salah expecting to start every week.

Klopp's had barely any support from Liverpool's billionaire owners whereas good old Roland couldn't get his wallet out quick enough. Really you have to say it's an absolute disgrace that Bowyer wasn't sacked straight after the play off final. 

Oh but hang on, he was sacked straight after the play-off final, and all the stupid Charlton fans complained about it because they ridiculously thought he'd worked a miracle in getting us promoted, so Roland reinstated him, so that we had to put up with him nearly keeping us up with the lowest budget in the Championship and absolute meltdown going on behind the scenes with the ownership.

Yep, you're right. You're definitely right.

If we're counting 'nearly keeping us up' as an achievement, then I'm really not sure what to say. Excuses can be made, and many are valid, about Taylor and the behind the scenes proceedings, but we also dropped a lot of points in games we should have done better from. 

As for the overachieving quote from today, god knows what has given him that impression.

(Had put this on the wrong thread) 

Abs to think @AFKABartram that for several years you were looking forward to the time when the ownership shenanagins would be over and we could focus the forum back on commenting on the football 😂

cafcfan1990 said:

MrLargo said:

shine166 said:

MrLargo said:

shine166 said:

MrLargo said:

Another defeat for Liverpool today. 2 wins from the last 7 games, not won at home since mid-December. 

Van Dijk's injured, blah, blah, blah, Gomez is injured, blah, blah, blah. As if that's a reasonable excuse! Klopp's clearly lost it, bloke hasn't got a clue. Can't believe they've not sacked him yet and brought in Paul Jones or Danny Cowley.

Good comparison if it wasn't for Liverpools succes over the last few years 

Yeah I know, ridiculous comparison by me. Klopp's barely spent a penny, whereas Bowyer's had his pick of lower league free transfers and inexperienced loanees. I bet Klopp would have jumped at the chance to sign Macaulay Bonne for £100k and Deli Oshilaja on a free. And Bowyer had the advantage of Lyle Taylor refusing to play, whilst poor old Jurgen had to put up with Mo Salah expecting to start every week.

Klopp's had barely any support from Liverpool's billionaire owners whereas good old Roland couldn't get his wallet out quick enough. Really you have to say it's an absolute disgrace that Bowyer wasn't sacked straight after the play off final. 

Oh but hang on, he was sacked straight after the play-off final, and all the stupid Charlton fans complained about it because they ridiculously thought he'd worked a miracle in getting us promoted, so Roland reinstated him, so that we had to put up with him nearly keeping us up with the lowest budget in the Championship and absolute meltdown going on behind the scenes with the ownership.

Yep, you're right. You're definitely right.

OK its exactly the same situation 

No, it clearly isn't exactly the same situation, so a bit odd of you to cite Klopp's success over the last few years, implying that Bowyer hasn't had any success, when he quite obviously had given the circumstances he was working under.

Has it been successful though? Yes we went up but came straight back down. He could easily leave us in a very similar position to the one he took over in. 

Admittedly the circumstances have mostly been horrendous, so progress was a long shot. Unfortunately for him it’s not anymore so he’s open to a lot more criticism. 

"Has he been successful though?"

Well we weren't going to make the play-offs in 17/18 with Karl Robinson in charge, so I'd say he was a success at the end of that season.

The following season we got promoted. We started that season unable to fill the substitutes bench. We spent £0 in transfer fees. So I think it's fair to say that he was successful that season.

I take your point about him leaving us in a very similar position to the one he took over in. Presumably you'd also say that Claudio Ranieri wasn't a success at Leicester, because he left Leicester in the relegation zone, so the Premier League title he won the year before is a bit irrelevant. Maybe Jurgen Klopp (sorry for the repeated reference to him) will leave Liverpool at the end of the season after finishing outside the Champions League places, in which case - by your logic - he isn't a success either, despite delivering the Premier League title and the Champions League. Mauricio Pochettino - took over a side that had just finished 6th, left them in 14th, another failure of a manager. Arsene Wenger also not successful (based on your criteria), and Alf Ramsey got sacked after failing to qualify for World Cup 1974, so he was an unsuccessful England manager.

Of course, I recognise that all of these comparisons are ridiculous - none of the aforementioned had to work within the ridiculous constraints applied by Roland, or the turmoil that followed that, or anything even remotely comparable to that.

I find it really weird that people on here attribute blame to Bowyer for our relegation last season. It's not much different to making Paul Jones the scapegoat for Wigan's relegation. It's as if the transfer window last January (when our owners forgot to tell us that we were under a transfer embargo) isn't relevant. And all the games that we dominated after lockdown, when we had no Taylor and Macauley Bonne had chance after chance but couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo, that isn't relevant either. And of course, we had a lower budget than anyone else in the Championship, so at a disadvantage before the season even started, but that doesn't matter either.

It's only a few months ago that we were all united in fear that we might not have a club to support for much longer. I was proud of our support back then, and for the years before that when we were fighting against Roland. But now that the club's secure, most seem to have forgotten how grateful we were to have Bowyer and Jacko while everything else was going to shit in the background. Now we're no different from Chelsea, Palace, Newcastle, Spurs and the rest - unable to see the bigger picture and ready to change our managers as often as we change our socks, regardless of what's gone before.

It's not been very good recently, I can see that. He's made poor selection choices at times, and defensively we've been awful (since we lost our two best centre-backs). We were lousy against Portsmouth and Accrington. But we were good against Rochdale and MK Dons. If he has "lost it", then it's a bit weird that he keeps finding it again. I thought "losing it" was a permanent state. We were potent in attack today, and suicidal in defence, although not helped by a really soft sending off.

Bowyer might well turn out not to be the man, but I think he's earned the right to at least pick his first choice team a couple of times before we discard him. What's more, I think we owe him that, for staying last summer when there were offers from elsewhere and we were changing owners every other week, and for staying the year before despite being rewarded for promotion by getting the sack.

Not expecting to convince anyone to change their mind, but I can't get over how short some of your memories are, and how keen you are for us to become "that sort of club".