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Has Bowyer lost it?

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  • Dave2l
    Dave2l Posts: 8,866
    se9addick said:
    Dave2l said:
    If bowyer had self respect and dignity.

    He should just openly apologise to the players. Don't make excuses. Be honest and just admit he hasn't quite been himself recently.

    Then resign.

    I'd warm to that. 

    He would then still be an employable football manager in a year or so.

    He's learned a lot and has experienced a lot.

    It would work out for both sides. 

    Really hope he just wakes up and does this.
    I’m sure Bowyer has “self respect and dignity”, let’s not start calling the mans character into question. Keep it classy. 

    He has a contract to manage the team, provided he continues to do that (I.e. doesn’t down tools) until he is relieved then that is all that is required. If we want him gone then he should be paid off - that’s the nature of contract based roles. 

    Obviously he does have self respect. If he didn't, then he wouldn't be a manager in the 1st place.

    I just mean in reference to his recent childish behaviour. Have to correct myself.
  • Fortune 82nd Minute
    Fortune 82nd Minute Posts: 8,338
    Well it's midday on Sunday and I can't but feel TS would have acted by now if he was going to remove LB after yesterday's fiasco. So I assume LB w I'll still be in charge on Tuesday. I'm amazed to be honest.

    But the time has come for TS to say something. If he is not going to sack LB he needs to make it clear that LB retains his full support and will be allowed a full rebuild in the summer. 

    Saying nothing is no longer an option. 
  • SamB09
    SamB09 Posts: 901
    Its about 5am in Colorado so you never know maybe still something mau be announced today.
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,619
    edited February 2021
    I suspect that today there will be a conference call where TS and LB have a heart to heart. I feel that after this Lee will be safe with support until the end of the season when TS will assess the whole situation. I’m guessing Ged will be tasked with stepping up a search and create a shortlist of possible candidates to approach in the summer. Should Lee walk then I’m of the opinion that a short term caretaker is the right thing to do. We must get any appointment right and that deserves looking further afield than Cowley or Cook. If Lee goes then the summer is the right time to appoint. 
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    edited February 2021
    http://www.votvonline.com/home/the-2020-21-blogs/28-2-bowyer-unable-to-hold-back-the-tide-of-defeat/

    More "short sighted and intellectually challenged" comment here :wink:.  Hard to argue with a single word of it.

    I would go as far as saying its very well reasoned and balanced? 
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,728
    edited February 2021
    I think a short term caretaker from within for the remaining games provides an opportunity to get things stable again at the very least. Whether that is JJ, Euell or even Pearce, that should be for somebody like Roddy to advise on given his closeness to the situation.
  • MrOneLung
    MrOneLung Posts: 26,853
    Pros and cons of keeping Bowyer

    Pros
    Gives him a chance to turn our form around/mend fences with players 
    Give him a chance to play some younger players to have a good look at them in a real game time environment
    Allows us to have a long post season/ pre season to enable us to source the right players to buy. 
    Shows potential signings that the owner wants some kinds of stability at the club. 

    Cons
    has lost the dressing the room. 
    players going through the motions as they know they are not likely to be here next season
    losing becomes a habit the hangover continues into next season. 
    We lose the chance for a new manager to come in, assess the squad and build their own team for next season. 
    Toxic atmosphere amongst the fans as well as the team. 
    Could still fall into relegation battle. 
    We go through this again next season and another wasted year. 

    Personally I think the cons outweighs the pros which I why I feel we need to make the move now. 

  • esseffect
    esseffect Posts: 493
    MrOneLung said:
    Pros and cons of keeping Bowyer

    Pros
    Gives him a chance to turn our form around/mend fences with players 
    Give him a chance to play some younger players to have a good look at them in a real game time environment
    Allows us to have a long post season/ pre season to enable us to source the right players to buy. 
    Shows potential signings that the owner wants some kinds of stability at the club. 

    Cons
    has lost the dressing the room. 
    players going through the motions as they know they are not likely to be here next season
    losing becomes a habit the hangover continues into next season. 
    We lose the chance for a new manager to come in, assess the squad and build their own team for next season. 
    Toxic atmosphere amongst the fans as well as the team. 
    Could still fall into relegation battle. 
    We go through this again next season and another wasted year. 

    Personally I think the cons outweighs the pros which I why I feel we need to make the move now. 

    I think some of those cons remain even if you bring in a new manager. Players will still be out of contract.

    Also relegation battle is a little far fetched 
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    esseffect said:
    MrOneLung said:
    Pros and cons of keeping Bowyer

    Pros
    Gives him a chance to turn our form around/mend fences with players 
    Give him a chance to play some younger players to have a good look at them in a real game time environment
    Allows us to have a long post season/ pre season to enable us to source the right players to buy. 
    Shows potential signings that the owner wants some kinds of stability at the club. 

    Cons
    has lost the dressing the room. 
    players going through the motions as they know they are not likely to be here next season
    losing becomes a habit the hangover continues into next season. 
    We lose the chance for a new manager to come in, assess the squad and build their own team for next season. 
    Toxic atmosphere amongst the fans as well as the team. 
    Could still fall into relegation battle. 
    We go through this again next season and another wasted year. 

    Personally I think the cons outweighs the pros which I why I feel we need to make the move now. 

    I think some of those cons remain even if you bring in a new manager. Players will still be out of contract.

    Also relegation battle is a little far fetched 
    We need a minimum of 6 points in March else we will be in one. Look at our April fixtures, I don't see us getting much out of them.  Can you? 
  • Croydon
    Croydon Posts: 12,728
    esseffect said:
    MrOneLung said:
    Pros and cons of keeping Bowyer

    Pros
    Gives him a chance to turn our form around/mend fences with players 
    Give him a chance to play some younger players to have a good look at them in a real game time environment
    Allows us to have a long post season/ pre season to enable us to source the right players to buy. 
    Shows potential signings that the owner wants some kinds of stability at the club. 

    Cons
    has lost the dressing the room. 
    players going through the motions as they know they are not likely to be here next season
    losing becomes a habit the hangover continues into next season. 
    We lose the chance for a new manager to come in, assess the squad and build their own team for next season. 
    Toxic atmosphere amongst the fans as well as the team. 
    Could still fall into relegation battle. 
    We go through this again next season and another wasted year. 

    Personally I think the cons outweighs the pros which I why I feel we need to make the move now. 

    I think some of those cons remain even if you bring in a new manager. Players will still be out of contract.

    Also relegation battle is a little far fetched 
    Worst form in the league, no sight of a win on the horizon, horrendous run in. We're not too good to get relegated.
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  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,846
    Cafc43v3r said:
    http://www.votvonline.com/home/the-2020-21-blogs/28-2-bowyer-unable-to-hold-back-the-tide-of-defeat/

    More "short sighted and intellectually challenged" comment here :wink:.  Hard to argue with a single word of it.

    I would go as far as saying its very well reasoned and balanced? 
    Strong stuff, as Rick has been relatively supportive of Bowyer up to now
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,619
    Not much doubt from that piece of which way Ricks mop flops.
  • RonnieMoore
    RonnieMoore Posts: 4,496
    Fortune 82nd Minute said:
    Well it's midday on Sunday and I can't but feel TS would have acted by now if he was going to remove LB after yesterday's fiasco. So I assume LB w I'll still be in charge on Tuesday. I'm amazed to be honest.

    But the time has come for TS to say something. If he is not going to sack LB he needs to make it clear that LB retains his full support and will be allowed a full rebuild in the summer. 

    Saying nothing is no longer an 


    LB will be in charge come start of next season .. the expectations of fans this season. Has been ridiculous to be honest it was always going to be very difficult for us to get promoted this season given our situation at the start of the season ... if we could sneek into play offs and that not out the question in this league it will be one of our biggest achievements .... this season has been a rush , we have been playing catch up since the day TS took over .. yes we had to sign players that were available might not have been the ones we would have chosen given more time and no wage cap but needs must .. some have worked some have not .. 

    Add this to the whole COVID situation and no crowds which I believe is a massive lift for away teams coming to the valley and a big loss to us ... and I think you see why TS will not be removing LB ... we need a proper pre season and proper time to try and catch up a bit more and without wage cap hopefully we can do that much easier 
  • carly burn
    carly burn Posts: 19,459
    It's so hard to make a case for him now.

    .
    You can bemoan how he threw a squad together in a short space of time and those he got were not at the top of his list/didn't have clubs/were untested.
    But is it really any worse than the squads of Blackpool? Gillingham? Fleetwood?
    The sides we are struggling to hold a light against?
    This is still a decent squad. It may not be good enough for automatic promotion but playoffs should have been an achievable goal.
    I'm afraid it would be a brave man that had faith in Bowyer even being able to attract the kinds of players at the top of his shopping list, such has been his non reticent public displays of personal dissatisfaction with nearly all of them.


  • Croydon
    Croydon Posts: 12,728
    It would be one of Charlton's biggest achievements to finish in the top 6, in League One? Heard it all now. 
  • carly burn
    carly burn Posts: 19,459
    RonnieMoore said:
    Fortune 82nd Minute said:
    Well it's midday on Sunday and I can't but feel TS would have acted by now if he was going to remove LB after yesterday's fiasco. So I assume LB w I'll still be in charge on Tuesday. I'm amazed to be honest.

    But the time has come for TS to say something. If he is not going to sack LB he needs to make it clear that LB retains his full support and will be allowed a full rebuild in the summer. 

    Saying nothing is no longer an 


    LB will be in charge come start of next season .. the expectations of fans this season. Has been ridiculous to be honest it was always going to be very difficult for us to get promoted this season given our situation at the start of the season ... if we could sneek into play offs and that not out the question in this league it will be one of our biggest achievements .... this season has been a rush , we have been playing catch up since the day TS took over .. yes we had to sign players that were available might not have been the ones we would have chosen given more time and no wage cap but needs must .. some have worked some have not .. 

    Add this to the whole COVID situation and no crowds which I believe is a massive lift for away teams coming to the valley and a big loss to us ... and I think you see why TS will not be removing LB ... we need a proper pre season and proper time to try and catch up a bit more and without wage cap hopefully we can do that much easier 
     Hope not. The now clear division between manager and players is a huge concern.
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    Is our team now, significantly worse than this one?


  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 36,012
    ValleyGary said:
    RonnieMoore said:
    Fortune 82nd Minute said:
    Well it's midday on Sunday and I can't but feel TS would have acted by now if he was going to remove LB after yesterday's fiasco. So I assume LB w I'll still be in charge on Tuesday. I'm amazed to be honest.

    But the time has come for TS to say something. If he is not going to sack LB he needs to make it clear that LB retains his full support and will be allowed a full rebuild in the summer. 

    Saying nothing is no longer an 


    LB will be in charge come start of next season .. the expectations of fans this season. Has been ridiculous to be honest it was always going to be very difficult for us to get promoted this season given our situation at the start of the season ... if we could sneek into play offs and that not out the question in this league it will be one of our biggest achievements .... this season has been a rush , we have been playing catch up since the day TS took over .. yes we had to sign players that were available might not have been the ones we would have chosen given more time and no wage cap but needs must .. some have worked some have not .. 

    Add this to the whole COVID situation and no crowds which I believe is a massive lift for away teams coming to the valley and a big loss to us ... and I think you see why TS will not be removing LB ... we need a proper pre season and proper time to try and catch up a bit more and without wage cap hopefully we can do that much easier 
    But it’s been pointed out on several occasions, what players are going to want to come here and play under a manager that publicly slates his players and constantly changes them??

    I do not trust Bowyer to attract the correct players, play them in their correct roles and play a system that will get us results. 
    Players will come to us because we'll still be one of the biggest clubs at this level. And now the salary cap has gone you'd assume one of the better payers too.

    Players will always back their own ability anyway, i doubt many will think "i'm not signing for Charlton as i might get rotated, i'll go to Accrington and play every game".
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  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,036
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    After racking my brains, the best theory I can come up with is Thomas agreed to give Bowyer this season with a target of top six. He being a man of principle won't go back on his word.

    If that is correct, we probably won't see Bowyer gone until top six is impossible or he walks which I think is unlikely for reasons we have already discussed.

    There is a new issue looming though. If we carry on like this, we can't rule out relegation. A few more defeats and this possibility will get larger and larger.  

    And if Sandgaard is a man of principle, he will start with Bowyer next season.
    Not if he hasn't assured him of such. Being a man of principle is not the same thing as being a fool.
    Sandgaard said Bowyer was the man for the job, and he wanted promotion in two seasons.
  • carly burn
    carly burn Posts: 19,459
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    ValleyGary said:
    RonnieMoore said:
    Fortune 82nd Minute said:
    Well it's midday on Sunday and I can't but feel TS would have acted by now if he was going to remove LB after yesterday's fiasco. So I assume LB w I'll still be in charge on Tuesday. I'm amazed to be honest.

    But the time has come for TS to say something. If he is not going to sack LB he needs to make it clear that LB retains his full support and will be allowed a full rebuild in the summer. 

    Saying nothing is no longer an 


    LB will be in charge come start of next season .. the expectations of fans this season. Has been ridiculous to be honest it was always going to be very difficult for us to get promoted this season given our situation at the start of the season ... if we could sneek into play offs and that not out the question in this league it will be one of our biggest achievements .... this season has been a rush , we have been playing catch up since the day TS took over .. yes we had to sign players that were available might not have been the ones we would have chosen given more time and no wage cap but needs must .. some have worked some have not .. 

    Add this to the whole COVID situation and no crowds which I believe is a massive lift for away teams coming to the valley and a big loss to us ... and I think you see why TS will not be removing LB ... we need a proper pre season and proper time to try and catch up a bit more and without wage cap hopefully we can do that much easier 
    But it’s been pointed out on several occasions, what players are going to want to come here and play under a manager that publicly slates his players and constantly changes them??

    I do not trust Bowyer to attract the correct players, play them in their correct roles and play a system that will get us results. 
    Players will come to us because we'll still be one of the biggest clubs at this level. And now the salary cap has gone you'd assume one of the better payers too.

    Players will always back their own ability anyway, i doubt many will think "i'm not signing for Charlton as i might get rotated, i'll go to Accrington and play every game".
     As VG rightly said though, hanging players out after a single.mistake might be an issue
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    After racking my brains, the best theory I can come up with is Thomas agreed to give Bowyer this season with a target of top six. He being a man of principle won't go back on his word.

    If that is correct, we probably won't see Bowyer gone until top six is impossible or he walks which I think is unlikely for reasons we have already discussed.

    There is a new issue looming though. If we carry on like this, we can't rule out relegation. A few more defeats and this possibility will get larger and larger.  

    And if Sandgaard is a man of principle, he will start with Bowyer next season.
    Not if he hasn't assured him of such. Being a man of principle is not the same thing as being a fool.
    Sandgaard said Bowyer was the man for the job, and he wanted promotion in two seasons.
    Doesn’t mean he should stick with Bowyer for the second season just because we didn’t expect to go to up in the first. 

    You have to have the confidence that he’s the right man for the job. The slagging off of players, the recruitment, team selections and tactics are increasingly showing that just he’s not. 
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,036
    cafcfan1990 said:
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    After racking my brains, the best theory I can come up with is Thomas agreed to give Bowyer this season with a target of top six. He being a man of principle won't go back on his word.

    If that is correct, we probably won't see Bowyer gone until top six is impossible or he walks which I think is unlikely for reasons we have already discussed.

    There is a new issue looming though. If we carry on like this, we can't rule out relegation. A few more defeats and this possibility will get larger and larger.  

    And if Sandgaard is a man of principle, he will start with Bowyer next season.
    Not if he hasn't assured him of such. Being a man of principle is not the same thing as being a fool.
    Sandgaard said Bowyer was the man for the job, and he wanted promotion in two seasons.
    Doesn’t mean he should stick with Bowyer for the second season just because we didn’t expect to go to up in the first. 

    You have to have the confidence that he’s the right man for the job. The slagging off of players, the recruitment, team selections and tactics are increasingly showing that just he’s not. 
    Coating players in public is a poor show.
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    cafcfan1990 said:
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    After racking my brains, the best theory I can come up with is Thomas agreed to give Bowyer this season with a target of top six. He being a man of principle won't go back on his word.

    If that is correct, we probably won't see Bowyer gone until top six is impossible or he walks which I think is unlikely for reasons we have already discussed.

    There is a new issue looming though. If we carry on like this, we can't rule out relegation. A few more defeats and this possibility will get larger and larger.  

    And if Sandgaard is a man of principle, he will start with Bowyer next season.
    Not if he hasn't assured him of such. Being a man of principle is not the same thing as being a fool.
    Sandgaard said Bowyer was the man for the job, and he wanted promotion in two seasons.
    Doesn’t mean he should stick with Bowyer for the second season just because we didn’t expect to go to up in the first. 

    You have to have the confidence that he’s the right man for the job. The slagging off of players, the recruitment, team selections and tactics are increasingly showing that just he’s not. 
    Coating players in public is a poor show.
    It’s clearly putting players off. Is there any coming back from that? I don’t think so. Fair enough players have to take responsibility but you can’t just sell all the players he slags off and keep replacing them. It’s ok occasionally but it’s not a long term solution. 
  • Hydeaddick
    Hydeaddick Posts: 79
    My concern about giving Bowyer a chance to rebuild in the summer is that word has already gone round about his shortcomings and anyone decent would run a mile. It may have been a reason why we didn’t land our top targets in January.
  • ValleyGary
    ValleyGary Posts: 37,979
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    ValleyGary said:
    RonnieMoore said:
    Fortune 82nd Minute said:
    Well it's midday on Sunday and I can't but feel TS would have acted by now if he was going to remove LB after yesterday's fiasco. So I assume LB w I'll still be in charge on Tuesday. I'm amazed to be honest.

    But the time has come for TS to say something. If he is not going to sack LB he needs to make it clear that LB retains his full support and will be allowed a full rebuild in the summer. 

    Saying nothing is no longer an 


    LB will be in charge come start of next season .. the expectations of fans this season. Has been ridiculous to be honest it was always going to be very difficult for us to get promoted this season given our situation at the start of the season ... if we could sneek into play offs and that not out the question in this league it will be one of our biggest achievements .... this season has been a rush , we have been playing catch up since the day TS took over .. yes we had to sign players that were available might not have been the ones we would have chosen given more time and no wage cap but needs must .. some have worked some have not .. 

    Add this to the whole COVID situation and no crowds which I believe is a massive lift for away teams coming to the valley and a big loss to us ... and I think you see why TS will not be removing LB ... we need a proper pre season and proper time to try and catch up a bit more and without wage cap hopefully we can do that much easier 
    But it’s been pointed out on several occasions, what players are going to want to come here and play under a manager that publicly slates his players and constantly changes them??

    I do not trust Bowyer to attract the correct players, play them in their correct roles and play a system that will get us results. 
    Players will come to us because we'll still be one of the biggest clubs at this level. And now the salary cap has gone you'd assume one of the better payers too.

    Players will always back their own ability anyway, i doubt many will think "i'm not signing for Charlton as i might get rotated, i'll go to Accrington and play every game".
    Players that we will be after to get out of this league will still have options. Bowyer is getting himself a reputation for all the wrong reasons.
  • Chunes
    Chunes Posts: 17,348
    edited February 2021
    Can anyone think of a manager who turned a run of form and an unmotivated team like this around? If he is staying, I'd at least like to give myself some hope.
  • ct_addick
    ct_addick Posts: 4,333
    Problem with Bowyer is that he competed at such a higher level than these players and is so much mentally stronger. There is a reason they are playing at this level.
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