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Just Stop Oil protestors.....
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Protesting about oil at Wimbledon, half of the people there are so rich they are probably driving electric cars anyway, oh the irony!0
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The difference is, the people in those movements were doing it in the places where the issue actually was - the epicentre of it - would the civil rights movement have gained as much traction if it was happening on a small island a few thousand miles away whilst the status quo continued in the heart of America?? Hell no the entire impact was because it happened in the US where the issue was. You think China and India care about what is happening here? Not a chance. It's the hearts and minds of the people in those countries that need winning over not us. And these just stop oil protesters know that as well as we do.Exiled_Addick said:No doubt similar grumbles were made about abolitionists, suffragettes, and the civil rights movement, to name but a few world changing movements. All those people started out on the fringes of popular public opinion but now are all seen as firmly on the right side of history. Protest, which by necessity has to include some element of nuisance to other people to get noticed, has always been a crucial and powerful tool in social change.0 -
Golfies quoting Elton John now .....!golfaddick said:
I was saying to my kids yesterday that the the BBC have been showing a lot of stuff on the dinosaurs recently.sillav nitram said:Sorry, @golfaddick but the reason you don't like it, is because you're just a grumpy bugger and it inconveniences you and others.
It's a very important issue and fair play to them for bringing to everyone's attention, otherwise most of us would die, not necessarily from global warming but apathy and sheer laziness to do anything about the problems of our world today!
They were on this planet millions of years ago. Millions. And they are all now extinct. Yet life goes on. If we all die out the planet will regenerate after a number of years & start all over again. But we wont all die out. And the planet will carry on as before. Maybe a bit more water & a bit less land. But then millions of years ago that was also the case & over time the seas retreated a bit & land was reclaimed.
It's the circle of life. it's the wheel of fortune. I'll be dead in 30 years....40 at the most. My timespan on this planet is just a grain of sand......or, keeping to the point, a drop in the ocean.1 -
The epicentre of climate change on earth is earth. Some countries are bigger polluters than others, but it's a global problem we all contribute to. There is no difference.Manic_mania said:
The difference is, the people in those movements were doing it in the places where the issue actually was - the epicentre of it - would the civil rights movement have gained as much traction if it was happening on a small island a few thousand miles away whilst the status quo continued in the heart of America?? Hell no the entire impact was because it happened in the US where the issue was. You think China and India care about what is happening here? Not a chance. It's the hearts and minds of the people in those countries that need winning over not us. And these just stop oil protesters know that as well as we do.Exiled_Addick said:No doubt similar grumbles were made about abolitionists, suffragettes, and the civil rights movement, to name but a few world changing movements. All those people started out on the fringes of popular public opinion but now are all seen as firmly on the right side of history. Protest, which by necessity has to include some element of nuisance to other people to get noticed, has always been a crucial and powerful tool in social change.5 -
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If only they spent as much time trying to educate people rather than alienating them and debating the semantics of their rights.
There was a video the other day of a group of them walking down a road, and a policeman asked them to move off of it as it presents a dangerous scenario at that moment of time.
Their responses were on the lines of:
“But what do you mean by the road? Where does the road start and end? What about the next road along?”
And
”What do you mean by ‘the moment’?
If that’s the way they want to go about things, then quite frankly they can go fuck themselves as far as I’m concerned. Amazing how they tend to be the same people who will complain about how the services are being decimated, yet they’re willing to go and waste valuable police time with their antics.3 -
The planet is on fire, nature is being wiped out and our entire species at risk of extinction while oil and gas corporations make billions in profit but most people are more angry about some idealistic protesters delaying the arrival of their new kitchen.
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British open? Surely you mean The Open!swordfish said:Whatever people think of them, they won't stop and climate protests are here for good. Prepare for the level of disruption to increase. The British Open Golf's up next.1 -
That is so naïve. Sorry but it is. The epicentre of the issue is in America, India and China. If it's the same thing then tell me how civil rights protests in the UK made changes in America in the 50's and 60's or how French people protesting the suffragettes won British women the right to vote??swordfish said:
The epicentre of climate change on earth is earth. Some countries are bigger polluters than others, but it's a global problem we all contribute to. There is no difference.Manic_mania said:
The difference is, the people in those movements were doing it in the places where the issue actually was - the epicentre of it - would the civil rights movement have gained as much traction if it was happening on a small island a few thousand miles away whilst the status quo continued in the heart of America?? Hell no the entire impact was because it happened in the US where the issue was. You think China and India care about what is happening here? Not a chance. It's the hearts and minds of the people in those countries that need winning over not us. And these just stop oil protesters know that as well as we do.Exiled_Addick said:No doubt similar grumbles were made about abolitionists, suffragettes, and the civil rights movement, to name but a few world changing movements. All those people started out on the fringes of popular public opinion but now are all seen as firmly on the right side of history. Protest, which by necessity has to include some element of nuisance to other people to get noticed, has always been a crucial and powerful tool in social change.
It isn't the same at all
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For those that weren't aware of it, there is now a thread on the House of Commoners section of this forum set up for debating Environmental Issues and Green Politics.1
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Here we are talking about it and researching for ourselves. That’ll start the conversation and start to educate people.cafctom said:If only they spent as much time trying to educate people rather than alienating them and debating the semantics of their rights.
There was a video the other day of a group of them walking down a road, and a policeman asked them to move off of it as it presents a dangerous scenario at that moment of time.
Their responses were on the lines of:
“But what do you mean by the road? Where does the road start and end? What about the next road along?”
And
”What do you mean by ‘the moment’?
If that’s the way they want to go about things, then quite frankly they can go fuck themselves as far as I’m concerned. Amazing how they tend to be the same people who will complain about how the services are being decimated, yet they’re willing to go and waste valuable police time with their antics.Quite a depressing world if we believe it takes protest groups to educate people when that should be the role of a government instead of populist politics and stoking culture wars.1 -
Re the India/China sentiment - well, that's a byproduct of countries like the UK outsourcing its pollution, in some sense. A lot of our clothes and textiles are created in China or India. We get fruits imported from across the world. So on, so forth. It's a global issue, not a local one.
As for Just Stop Oil... well. Large protests are getting their cause out in the news. And I'll be honest, it is making me think about the climate a bit more, and sustainability, even if I disagree a little with their methods. I am trying on a personal level to reduce plastic usage/single-usage waste, and similar.
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If they're funded by someone whose wealth derives from oil money - well, Aileen Getty herself isn't an oil baron, is she? She is recognising the environmental damage her family's enterprises have caused, and funding a protest group to try and redress the balance. Like, that's that. Why is that a line of attack people are dredging up? Proper ad hominem stuff.6 -
As a result of my career path over the last thirty years I've been aware of the progressive and often ireverrsible damage being done to our planet's environment. Some improvements have taken place during that time but in general the situation continues to worsen and we are now on the cusp of a global crisis.
I too have been inconvenienced by the protests but we're all drinking in the Last Chance Saloon and if people don't chose to recognise this they are sadly and unwittingly complicit. Some of you may remember the 2006 documentary by the former US Vice President, Al Gore which won two Oscars. The film provides an excellent introduction to the situation and I would recommend that anyone who hasn't yet seen it should watch it now. It's 97 minutes long and will cost you £2.49 (SD Version) to view on You Tube.
If you haven't already then I implore you to watch it now, you can do so here....
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=An+Inconvenient+Truth%2Bmovie
Just click on the blue button to the right of the screen stating 'Buy or Rent' and select SD for £2.49.
I'd be very surprised if, after watching, your opinion on this subject hasn't been genuinely changed but if that is the case then message me with proof of purchase and I'll gladly pay you the £2.49 that it cost you to watch the film.
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Sounds riveting, but think I'd sooner visit that shit word game thread on this section of the forumswordfish said:For those that weren't aware of it, there is now a thread on the House of Commoners section of this forum set up for debating Environmental Issues and Green Politics.7 -
I'm the one being naive saying climate change is a global problem that we all contribute to am I? I think not. You are aware that climate change protests aren't unique to this country I presume?Manic_mania said:
That is so naïve. Sorry but it is. The epicentre of the issue is in America, India and China. If it's the same thing then tell me how civil rights protests in the UK made changes in America in the 50's and 60's or how French people protesting the suffragettes won British women the right to vote??swordfish said:
The epicentre of climate change on earth is earth. Some countries are bigger polluters than others, but it's a global problem we all contribute to. There is no difference.Manic_mania said:
The difference is, the people in those movements were doing it in the places where the issue actually was - the epicentre of it - would the civil rights movement have gained as much traction if it was happening on a small island a few thousand miles away whilst the status quo continued in the heart of America?? Hell no the entire impact was because it happened in the US where the issue was. You think China and India care about what is happening here? Not a chance. It's the hearts and minds of the people in those countries that need winning over not us. And these just stop oil protesters know that as well as we do.Exiled_Addick said:No doubt similar grumbles were made about abolitionists, suffragettes, and the civil rights movement, to name but a few world changing movements. All those people started out on the fringes of popular public opinion but now are all seen as firmly on the right side of history. Protest, which by necessity has to include some element of nuisance to other people to get noticed, has always been a crucial and powerful tool in social change.
It isn't the same at all4 -
it's naive to think that we as a country, or scandinavia or the whole of Europe collectively just stopped using oil that this issue would even be 10% towards being the issue resolved globally. How much of the worlds population are in US, China and India? Shouldn't we be focussing our efforts on educating and pushing them to make changes instead of re-arranging the bedroom furniture like it would make any kind of difference? You could wipe the rest of the world off the map in terms of consumption and pollution and it wouldn't make a dent to the issues we face globally.
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It’s the government’s job to focus other counties. They’re not doing it. We’re lucky if this government even attends climate events.Manic_mania said:it's naive to think that we as a country, or scandinavia or the whole of Europe collectively just stopped using oil that this issue would even be 10% towards being the issue resolved globally. How much of the worlds population are in US, China and India? Shouldn't we be focussing our efforts on educating and pushing them to make changes instead of re-arranging the bedroom furniture like it would make any kind of difference? You could wipe the rest of the world off the map in terms of consumption and pollution and it wouldn't make a dent to the issues we face globally.3 -
Thinking about joining up with Just Stop Oil, not for any moral issue, more that they seem to be able to get tickets for all the top sporting events. 🤓
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Look at any proposal for renewable energy infrastructure of any scale - wind, nuclear, solar - it's inevitably the greens that are objecting to it. The may support renewables in theory but any specific project is opposed, especially nuclear which is essential for a carbon neutral energy mix.grumpyaddick said:The planet is on fire, nature is being wiped out and our entire species at risk of extinction while oil and gas corporations make billions in profit but most people are more angry about some idealistic protesters delaying the arrival of their new kitchen.0 -
How patronising. China and America are investing vastly more in renewables per capita than we are. India not as much but they have a tiny carbon footprint per person than we doManic_mania said:it's naive to think that we as a country, or scandinavia or the whole of Europe collectively just stopped using oil that this issue would even be 10% towards being the issue resolved globally. How much of the worlds population are in US, China and India? Shouldn't we be focussing our efforts on educating and pushing them to make changes instead of re-arranging the bedroom furniture like it would make any kind of difference? You could wipe the rest of the world off the map in terms of consumption and pollution and it wouldn't make a dent to the issues we face globally.4 - Sponsored links:
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Lol. Who said more? Is it not possible to be angry at both?grumpyaddick said:The planet is on fire, nature is being wiped out and our entire species at risk of extinction while oil and gas corporations make billions in profit but most people are more angry about some idealistic protesters delaying the arrival of their new kitchen.0 -
We were protesting against the club....the place where the protesters were gathered.SouthallAddick said:Genuine question. Why was it ok for us to disrupt sporting events at the CARD protests but not for just stop oil at the cricket and Wimbledon? I don’t have an answer.
Just stop Oil were protesting against (who ?? what ??) at the Lawn Tennis Association. I'm pretty sure that they have nothing to do with the making or extracting of Oil. Nor do the people there watching.
Bit like us protesting against Roland by baracading staff from entering HSBC in Canary Wharf.14 -
apologies, that wasn't meant to come across as patronising.Jints said:
How patronising. China and America are investing vastly more in renewables per capita than we are. India not as much but they have a tiny carbon footprint per person than we doManic_mania said:it's naive to think that we as a country, or scandinavia or the whole of Europe collectively just stopped using oil that this issue would even be 10% towards being the issue resolved globally. How much of the worlds population are in US, China and India? Shouldn't we be focussing our efforts on educating and pushing them to make changes instead of re-arranging the bedroom furniture like it would make any kind of difference? You could wipe the rest of the world off the map in terms of consumption and pollution and it wouldn't make a dent to the issues we face globally.
i'm glad the Us and China are investing so much in renewables thank god because they need to do something.
Did Just stop oil picket them to make them do that?
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Sorry, but the Just Stop Oil protestors have brought this away from the Houses of Parliament & general politics and brought it directly into the general public's lives.swordfish said:For those that weren't aware of it, there is now a thread on the House of Commoners section of this forum set up for debating Environmental Issues and Green Politics.
Direct action is met by direct action.0 -
Ours was targeted directly at the ownership of our club. We didn’t do it at other grounds or rock up at a cricket match and start throwing pigs at the Aussie batsmen.SouthallAddick said:Genuine question. Why was it ok for us to disrupt sporting events at the CARD protests but not for just stop oil at the cricket and Wimbledon? I don’t have an answer.4 -
I was so annoyed at the disruption today I turned the engine on in my car on the drive until play resumed3
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The very fact it’s annoying a lot of people who only have a passing interest in environmental matters and the very fact everyone is now talking about them/the issue is the only proof you need that their approach is effective.Good for them. I suspect that future generations will regard those currently being arrested for their protests in the same light as we now look upon the pioneers of slavery abolition and the suffragettes.
A lot of whataboutery on here re other things they could do etc but the key for British protesters is to set an example and to push the agenda forward within the UK. They’re doing something, which is more than can be said for the rest of us. They’re raising this up the political agenda and once societal consciousness increases, it will drive political, educational and international change. That’s how protests work…they’re not expecting the world to change overnight because they’ve thrown some confetti at a tennis match but it’s making people talk and trying to stop everyone burying their heads in the sand.7 -
The approach isnt effective because I have not and will not change my actions due to themMaking_all_the_noise said:The very fact it’s annoying a lot of people who only have a passing interest in environmental matters and the very fact everyone is now talking about them/the issue is the only proof you need that their approach is effective.Good for them. I suspect that future generations will regard those currently being arrested for their protests in the same light as we now look upon the pioneers of slavery abolition and the suffragettes.
A lot of whataboutery on here re other things they could do etc but the key for British protesters is to set an example and to push the agenda forward within the UK. They’re doing something, which is more than can be said for the rest of us. They’re raising this up the political agenda and once societal consciousness increases, it will drive political, educational and international change. That’s how protests work…they’re not expecting the world to change overnight because they’ve thrown some confetti at a tennis match but it’s making people talk and trying to stop everyone burying their heads in the sand.9 -
And he's only got one lung, so if anyone should .....MrOneLung said:
The approach isnt effective because I have not and will not change my actions due to themMaking_all_the_noise said:The very fact it’s annoying a lot of people who only have a passing interest in environmental matters and the very fact everyone is now talking about them/the issue is the only proof you need that their approach is effective.Good for them. I suspect that future generations will regard those currently being arrested for their protests in the same light as we now look upon the pioneers of slavery abolition and the suffragettes.
A lot of whataboutery on here re other things they could do etc but the key for British protesters is to set an example and to push the agenda forward within the UK. They’re doing something, which is more than can be said for the rest of us. They’re raising this up the political agenda and once societal consciousness increases, it will drive political, educational and international change. That’s how protests work…they’re not expecting the world to change overnight because they’ve thrown some confetti at a tennis match but it’s making people talk and trying to stop everyone burying their heads in the sand.2 -
You will have to if it changes political regulation…and if many others do change their actions or it drives them to push it up the political agenda then it certainly will be effective.2
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