Dreadful situation but I can't see what can be done against Putin other than hitting the oligarchs as suggested by Prague. Will the west have the balls and will to do this and risk escalating the situation ? Sorry I can't see it. There will be a thousand mealy mouthed political words spoken and when all the dust has settled fuck all will be done.
Dreadful situation but I can't see what can be done against Putin other than hitting the oligarchs as suggested by Prague. Will the west have the balls and will to do this and risk escalating the situation ? Sorry I can't see it. There will be a thousand mealy mouthed political words spoken and when all the dust has settled fuck all will be done.
If I remember rightly, when the violence began in the Crimea, one of David Camerons aides was photographed entering Downing Street with some documents. When the photograph was examined the documents clearly advised against any financial investigations due to the impact it may have on the City and our economy...
Just reading about the disgusting treatment the poor victims are receiving at the crash site. Really upsetting stuff and what their families must be going through is unimaginable. Wtf is wrong with these people and they clearly have no an ounce of humanity left. Putin needs to get this bunch of thugs under control immediately.
"what the actual fuck" Leroy OK i`ll spell it out.
Israel was THINKING of going into Gaza --they had pulled up the troups /tanks etc--- when the tragic news came through about the air plane being blown out the sky its " lets go and NOW"----why ? because the news from around the World will focus is on the plane and who did it not what Israel is doing in Gaza--------Thats the UN-----the USA and the whole of the EU. Do they give a fuck ? maybe not---but always better to deflect the attention , its hiding bad news under worse news.
I'm pretty sure a military invasion has more precise planning than "I think we should go now mate, some Ukrainian fired a rocket, what you think pal?"
Dreadful situation but I can't see what can be done against Putin other than hitting the oligarchs as suggested by Prague. Will the west have the balls and will to do this and risk escalating the situation ? Sorry I can't see it. There will be a thousand mealy mouthed political words spoken and when all the dust has settled fuck all will be done.
If I remember rightly, when the violence began in the Crimea, one of David Camerons aides was photographed entering Downing Street with some documents. When the photograph was examined the documents clearly advised against any financial investigations due to the impact it may have on the City and our economy...
I may well be wrong, but this sounds familiar.
I really don't think you can get that much from a photograph of some one holding something. Unless they were holding it right up to the camera
Just reading about the disgusting treatment the poor victims are receiving at the crash site. Really upsetting stuff and what their families must be going through is unimaginable. Wtf is wrong with these people and they clearly have no an ounce of humanity left. Putin needs to get this bunch of thugs under control immediately.
Everything I read about this detail has come via The Sun, has any creditable source picked up the info yet ?
I must say I like the way we have handled this. Not saber rattling and throwing threats out, but more urging Putin to take a serious look at the situation and think about the monster he has created.
Kind of like when your mum says she isn't angry, she is disappointed. With such an egotistical chap as Vlad the Insaner, it's pointless getting mad at him, maybe this new tactic will work.
Either way, this is one of worst tragedies of my lifetime, absolutely pointless deaths, with many of those on board being people who were making a real difference to the world.
Well, 'we' can't throw threats out with 100% proof Putin is behind it. Russia has oil and we need it, exactly what is supposed to be done about it anyway ?.
It'll be interesting to see if Putin will admit, and take responsibility for, the actions of the Russian Separatists. Or whether he will continue to blame Ukraine. His actions will speak a 1000 words and will show what his intentions really are. Scary/interesting times, depending on your disposition.
The state run TV out there (Russia Today / RT) has had two high profile journalists/presenters leave due to the "lies" and feeling as though they work for Putin. One went on a tirade on twitter, I hope she's OK to be honest.
The first one was Washington-based and quit after the Russian invasion of Crimea. The second quit a few days ago and she was London-based. I was going to add, so hopefully she's safe. But then Alexander Litvinenko was London-based too and it didn't help him.
"what the actual fuck" Leroy OK i`ll spell it out.
Israel was THINKING of going into Gaza --they had pulled up the troups /tanks etc--- when the tragic news came through about the air plane being blown out the sky its " lets go and NOW"----why ? because the news from around the World will focus is on the plane and who did it not what Israel is doing in Gaza--------Thats the UN-----the USA and the whole of the EU. Do they give a fuck ? maybe not---but always better to deflect the attention , its hiding bad news under worse news.
I'm pretty sure a military invasion has more precise planning than "I think we should go now mate, some Ukrainian fired a rocket, what you think pal?"
You might want to read the analysis by Michael Binyon in yesterday's Times. Here's the first five paragraphs;
"Like all its military operations, Israel’s invasion of Gaza has been carefully planned, with military objectives agreed at cabinet level and the possible gains weighed against diplomatic setbacks.
But the shooting down of the airliner over Ukraine has suddenly handed Binyamin Netanyahu an unexpected opportunity: the world’s attention, and especially that of the United States, has been distracted, and there will not be the intense scrutiny of Israeli tactics or Palestinian casualties in Western capitals or the Western press.
The Israeli Defence Forces now have a free hand to expand their Operation Protective Edge — as Mr Netanyahu has announced — to achieve what they hope will be a permanent weakening of Hamas.
There have already been calls for a ceasefire and a halt to operations that are killing scores of Palestinian civilians. Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, has added her voice to the call by Ban Ki Moon, the United Nations secretary-general, for Israeli restraint.
Israel’s cabinet has anticipated such diplomatic pressure and is unlikely to be deterred from its objectives. The operation commands overwhelming support within Israel and the only diplomatic pressure that matters is that from the White House. For the moment, President Obama is preoccupied with how he should respond to the outrage in Ukraine."
It doesn't seem to me that the importance of the events in Gaza have in any way been lessened by the coverage of the downing of the airliner. The media, at least, here in the U.S., seem to be placing equal importance on both tragedies. I personally don't believe that "diplomatic pressure" from this White House, on either Israel or Putin, means a thing.
Dreadful situation but I can't see what can be done against Putin other than hitting the oligarchs as suggested by Prague. Will the west have the balls and will to do this and risk escalating the situation ? Sorry I can't see it. There will be a thousand mealy mouthed political words spoken and when all the dust has settled fuck all will be done.
Forgive my ignorance - but as if Putin is going to worry about persuing the oligarchs - what impact is that going to make? surely about as much impact as Cameron telling him not to be a naughty boy and not to do it again.
Although, USA is always going to tippy-toe around Israeli issues with their pro-Israeli stance.
The 3billion a year aid they give doesn't help either
Indeed, and for the avoidance of doubt these days this $3bn per annum is all in the form of military grants which now total an aggregated $70bn in the period since 1949.
While we're dealing with statistics, the Palestinian death toll since the latest Israeli operation began has now reached 425. According to the UN the majority of these are civilians with the number of wounded in excess of. 3,000. There have been two Israeli civilian casualties.
Unfortunately, Vladimir Putin may not take US outrage about the terrible MH17 tragedy entirely seriously.
How do you tell the difference between Palestinian civilians and those launching the rockets? The Israelis warned that "civilians" should get out of the way. It seems to me that they are doing what they said they were going to do, destroy Hamas' ability to launch rockets into Israel.
How do you tell the difference between Palestinian civilians and those launching the rockets? The Israelis warned that "civilians" should get out of the way. It seems to me that they are doing what they said they were going to do, destroy Hamas' ability to launch rockets into Israel.
Lol 'get out of the way' we are about to blow up your house. So the people move to another house which then gets blown up with no warning.
Is 60 seconds really long enough to vacate your house ? and where do you go if you live in a area circled by a 30 ft wall ?
How do you tell the difference between Palestinian civilians and those launching the rockets? The Israelis warned that "civilians" should get out of the way. It seems to me that they are doing what they said they were going to do, destroy Hamas' ability to launch rockets into Israel.
I pressed 'lol' on your post. But not because it's funny.
How do you tell the difference between Palestinian civilians and those launching the rockets? The Israelis warned that "civilians" should get out of the way. It seems to me that they are doing what they said they were going to do, destroy Hamas' ability to launch rockets into Israel.
.... so it's the fault of those civilians that they didn't get out of the way? In which case, Malaysian airlines are entirely to blame for the loss of their plane. What the hell was it doing flying over Eastern Ukraine airspace given that military transporters were being targeted? The Ukrainian government is also guilty. Why did it restrict the no fly zone to 30,000 feet? It's very hard not to be cynical, but the fact is that this response has no political capital or benefit.
The problem with all of this is that the western democracies, and the US in particular, have completely lost the moral high ground and with it the trust and respect of much of the international community. Killing civilians in one situation is OK while in another it's not. Why? Because Barack Obama says so. How do you think that plays in Moscow or Beijing or Tehran or Riyadh?
Of course I'm not saying that Malaysian Airlines is entirely at fault for the loss of their plane, that's nonsense. I AM saying that Israel gave ample warning of the areas that were going to be attacked, several days in advance. Maybe the western democracies have lost the moral high ground in the cities you mention, but it's the western democracies that are under attack from those same cities, and regularly are forced to go on the attack themselves, reluctantly, in order to defend themselves.
So - to draw a parallel here - how about if, when the IRA bombed Bishopsgate, Britain had given Ireland a few days warning before bombing the shit out of Dublin, killing 400 civilians in the process? Or if, even time ETA blew up a bar somewhere in Madrid, the Spanish government had given the people of the Basque country fair warning before levelling Bilbao?
It's an entirely specious argument, and one that is trotted out every single time Israel starts indiscriminately bombing the West Bank or Gaza, just before advancing in and pinching a little bit more land.
Still, considering in other posts you've shown yourself to be somewhere to the right of the Tea Party, it's hardly surprising.
Although, USA is always going to tippy-toe around Israeli issues with their pro-Israeli stance.
The 3billion a year aid they give doesn't help either
a constant flow of even more do$h goes there from overseas zionists, particularly from u.s. citizens - just do a quick search on the thoroughly objectionable las vegas hotel magnate sheldon adelson for just one "right of attila the hun" example; but virtually every overseas jew "gives" to their one axiomatic cause, it's in their "circle the wagons" dna....but get caught making the odd/minimal donation to any legitimate arab or muslim group that may just have a militant wing, then you are a terrorist, and it's 20 years in solitary for you matey - many, many sad trumped up cases of this in the u.s. since 9/11.
Although, USA is always going to tippy-toe around Israeli issues with their pro-Israeli stance.
The 3billion a year aid they give doesn't help either
a constant flow of even more do$h goes there from overseas zionists, particularly from u.s. citizens - just do a quick search on the thoroughly objectionable las vegas hotel magnate sheldon adelson for just one "right of attila the hun" example; but virtually every overseas jew "gives" to their one axiomatic cause, it's in their "circle the wagons" dna....but get caught making the odd/minimal donation to any legitimate arab or muslim group that may just have a militant wing, then you are a terrorist, and it's 20 years in solitary for you matey - many, many sad trumped up cases of this in the u.s. since 9/11.
So how did you feel about the Irish Americans donating for 'The Cause'?
There are atrocities on both sides and neither have my support. But, it is Israel that has, and has always had, overwhelming power in every respect and it uses said power with a near total clinical disregard for human suffering and in total disregard for International Law. It has illegally taken Palestinian land, fertile land areas, water, work, you name it and Israel has tried to either destroy or take it away from the Palestinian people. Many of them are ignorant, poorly educated, totally impoverished and vulnerable to propaganda from Hamas and other unreliable sources. It is unspeakably awful and complex, but for me, our great shame is that we still supply arms to Israel.
"Still, considering in other posts you've shown yourself to be somewhere to the right of the Tea Party, it's hardly surprising".
Nowhere near "right of The Tea Party". I have my own point of view, not swayed by the bias of the popular media. The Western, Christian civilizations are in danger, particularly while Obama and his cronies are in The White House.
Comments
I may well be wrong, but this sounds familiar.
Kind of like when your mum says she isn't angry, she is disappointed. With such an egotistical chap as Vlad the Insaner, it's pointless getting mad at him, maybe this new tactic will work.
Either way, this is one of worst tragedies of my lifetime, absolutely pointless deaths, with many of those on board being people who were making a real difference to the world.
Tragic.
The second quit a few days ago and she was London-based. I was going to add, so hopefully she's safe. But then Alexander Litvinenko was London-based too and it didn't help him.
"Like all its military operations, Israel’s invasion of Gaza has been carefully planned, with military objectives agreed at cabinet level and the possible gains weighed against diplomatic setbacks.
But the shooting down of the airliner over Ukraine has suddenly handed Binyamin Netanyahu an unexpected opportunity: the world’s attention, and especially that of the United States, has been distracted, and there will not be the intense scrutiny of Israeli tactics or Palestinian casualties in Western capitals or the Western press.
The Israeli Defence Forces now have a free hand to expand their Operation Protective Edge — as Mr Netanyahu has announced — to achieve what they hope will be a permanent weakening of Hamas.
There have already been calls for a ceasefire and a halt to operations that are killing scores of Palestinian civilians. Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, has added her voice to the call by Ban Ki Moon, the United Nations secretary-general, for Israeli restraint.
Israel’s cabinet has anticipated such diplomatic pressure and is unlikely to be deterred from its objectives. The operation commands overwhelming support within Israel and the only diplomatic pressure that matters is that from the White House. For the moment, President Obama is preoccupied with how he should respond to the outrage in Ukraine."
I personally don't believe that "diplomatic pressure" from this White House, on either Israel or Putin, means a thing.
While we're dealing with statistics, the Palestinian death toll since the latest Israeli operation began has now reached 425. According to the UN the majority of these are civilians with the number of wounded in excess of. 3,000. There have been two Israeli civilian casualties.
Unfortunately, Vladimir Putin may not take US outrage about the terrible MH17 tragedy entirely seriously.
Is 60 seconds really long enough to vacate your house ? and where do you go if you live in a area circled by a 30 ft wall ?
The problem with all of this is that the western democracies, and the US in particular, have completely lost the moral high ground and with it the trust and respect of much of the international community. Killing civilians in one situation is OK while in another it's not. Why? Because Barack Obama says so. How do you think that plays in Moscow or Beijing or Tehran or Riyadh?
Maybe the western democracies have lost the moral high ground in the cities you mention, but it's the western democracies that are under attack from those same cities, and regularly are forced to go on the attack themselves, reluctantly, in order to defend themselves.
It's an entirely specious argument, and one that is trotted out every single time Israel starts indiscriminately bombing the West Bank or Gaza, just before advancing in and pinching a little bit more land.
Still, considering in other posts you've shown yourself to be somewhere to the right of the Tea Party, it's hardly surprising.
If anyone belives that Israel entered Gaza without informing the US first, then they are naive.
So how did you feel about the Irish Americans donating for 'The Cause'?
Nowhere near "right of The Tea Party". I have my own point of view, not swayed by the bias of the popular media. The Western, Christian civilizations are in danger, particularly while Obama and his cronies are in The White House.