NB, I said prior to last night's game, that there should be more stewards inside the ground to try & prevent vandalism of the seats & toilets. Once again it ain't rocket science, but if there were more stewards, it wasn't apparent.
Much of the trouble could have been prevented, if there weren't incompetents making decisions.
I assume the home team pays for the stewards, so why would palace shell out extra money when they can just bill CAFC for uIe damage. They might as well have just smashed up the valley
That will happen but as you know it might take us a few years to play you there at the Valley but rest assured our idiots will return the compliment.
Oh yeah one question how many coaches to a local derby?
Let's wait and see when we will play eachother again. It might be sooner than you think. After all, there's always the FA Cup. Whenever it is, am sure it will be a lively affair.
What's your point about the coaches? For a lot of our fans this game is not local and maybe they don't have transport or don't want the grief of parking up at away games. Therefore they get the coach. Not really an issue is it?
NB, I said prior to last night's game, that there should be more stewards inside the ground to try & prevent vandalism of the seats & toilets. Once again it ain't rocket science, but if there were more stewards, it wasn't apparent.
Much of the trouble could have been prevented, if there weren't incompetents making decisions.
I assume the home team pays for the stewards, so why would palace shell out extra money when they can just bill CAFC for uIe damage. They might as well have just smashed up the valley
That will happen but as you know it might take us a few years to play you there at the Valley but rest assured our idiots will return the compliment.
Oh yeah one question how many coaches to a local derby?
I guess reading isn't your strong point, I was talking about our idiots.
NB, I said prior to last night's game, that there should be more stewards inside the ground to try & prevent vandalism of the seats & toilets. Once again it ain't rocket science, but if there were more stewards, it wasn't apparent.
Much of the trouble could have been prevented, if there weren't incompetents making decisions.
I assume the home team pays for the stewards, so why would palace shell out extra money when they can just bill CAFC for uIe damage. They might as well have just smashed up the valley
That will happen but as you know it might take us a few years to play you there at the Valley but rest assured our idiots will return the compliment.
Oh yeah one question how many coaches to a local derby?
A match in Surrey isn't particularly "local" for a team from South London.
I have to say I was surprised, that it was similar to the last game. When I queued up for tickets there must have been around 300 people all told. None of them looked like trouble.
So the only conclusion you can make, is that as S/T holders are permitted 2 each, potentially up to approx 1500 tickets can go to non Charlton supporters or "Charlton supporters" that only go to games to cause trouble, such as Millwall and Palace.. (As JohnnyH2 has already said.) It's not rocket science.
The logic here is that every 'decent' supporter buys a second ticket for a 'mindless moron.' I think it's more simple than that. The match is a bigger draw for those who hate Palace and know it's likely to be an occasion to kick-off with them, so they make more of an effort to get tickets. Contrary to popular belief, I think you will find most of them are also loyal supporters who attend as many games as others and who have season tickets and memberships. There's bucket-loads of hypocrisy on these threads. The bottle-throwing and acting up inside the ground was embarrassing but half-a-dozen coppers on the line would have stopped it. Stewards simply aren't up to the job when there's a line crossed between fans. They aren't paid or equipped enough to control the situation and it escalates as it did the other night. There will be repercussions after this game and some of those responsible will be getting woken up early and will be bemoaning disproportionate sentencing in weeks to come.
Anyone looking for evidence that we had a large percentage of helmets following us last night, I suggest you pop over to the Facebook group and look at some of the shite being spouted on there.
I'm curious. What Facebook page.
Unfortunately it appears to be the official club one, which doesn't seem to be moderated in any way shape or form. It might not be official, but either way its called Charlton Athletic.
Edit - take that back, it is actually labelled unofficial.
I have to say I was surprised, that it was similar to the last game. When I queued up for tickets there must have been around 300 people all told. None of them looked like trouble.
So the only conclusion you can make, is that as S/T holders are permitted 2 each, potentially up to approx 1500 tickets can go to non Charlton supporters or "Charlton supporters" that only go to games to cause trouble, such as Millwall and Palace.. (As JohnnyH2 has already said.) It's not rocket science.
First rules of Welling Skins, Middle Park, BMob, Youth has always been to maintain an up to date Valley Gold subscription.
I have to say I was surprised, that it was similar to the last game. When I queued up for tickets there must have been around 300 people all told. None of them looked like trouble.
So the only conclusion you can make, is that as S/T holders are permitted 2 each, potentially up to approx 1500 tickets can go to non Charlton supporters or "Charlton supporters" that only go to games to cause trouble, such as Millwall and Palace.. (As JohnnyH2 has already said.) It's not rocket science.
First rules of Welling Skins, Middle Park, BMob, Youth has always been to maintain an up to date Valley Gold subscription.
No Valley Gold when I were a lad ... we had our own ways ;-)
NB, I said prior to last night's game, that there should be more stewards inside the ground to try & prevent vandalism of the seats & toilets. Once again it ain't rocket science, but if there were more stewards, it wasn't apparent.
Much of the trouble could have been prevented, if there weren't incompetents making decisions.
I assume the home team pays for the stewards, so why would palace shell out extra money when they can just bill CAFC for uIe damage. They might as well have just smashed up the valley
With a cup game the cost of the stewards comes out of the total receipts, which are shared after these deductions. So both clubs pay. I don't think there is any provision in the rules for damage, so it's unlikely there is any mechanism for that to be charged to Charlton short of intervention by the FL (or FA) or agreement between the clubs.
With a league game and no (significant) revenue split, the issue wouldn't arise. Palace can't require Charlton to pay for damage, as I believe has been explored previously when this happened, which is logical because Charlton as a club have no control over it.
If you post on here, well played fella. Tweet on Newsshopper. Lisa (@Troomp) said: “Thank you to the #CAFC fan who helped my brother shield my mum from bottles and being pushed over in Holmesdale Road last night. #CPFC.”
NB, I said prior to last night's game, that there should be more stewards inside the ground to try & prevent vandalism of the seats & toilets. Once again it ain't rocket science, but if there were more stewards, it wasn't apparent.
Much of the trouble could have been prevented, if there weren't incompetents making decisions.
I assume the home team pays for the stewards, so why would palace shell out extra money when they can just bill CAFC for uIe damage. They might as well have just smashed up the valley
With a cup game the cost of the stewards comes out of the total receipts, which are shared after these deductions. So both clubs pay. I don't think there is any provision in the rules for damage, so it's unlikely there is any mechanism for that to be charged to Charlton short of intervention by the FL (or FA) or agreement between the clubs.
With a league game and no (significant) revenue split, the issue wouldn't arise. Palace can't require Charlton to pay for damage, as I believe has been explored previously when this happened, which is logical because Charlton as a club have no control over it.
Could you have a guestimate as to Charlton's net receipts for the game?
I have to say I was surprised, that it was similar to the last game. When I queued up for tickets there must have been around 300 people all told. None of them looked like trouble.
So the only conclusion you can make, is that as S/T holders are permitted 2 each, potentially up to approx 1500 tickets can go to non Charlton supporters or "Charlton supporters" that only go to games to cause trouble, such as Millwall and Palace.. (As JohnnyH2 has already said.) It's not rocket science.
The logic here is that every 'decent' supporter buys a second ticket for a 'mindless moron.' I think it's more simple than that. The match is a bigger draw for those who hate Palace and know it's likely to be an occasion to kick-off with them, so they make more of an effort to get tickets. Contrary to popular belief, I think you will find most of them are also loyal supporters who attend as many games as others and who have season tickets and memberships. There's bucket-loads of hypocrisy on these threads. The bottle-throwing and acting up inside the ground was embarrassing but half-a-dozen coppers on the line would have stopped it. Stewards simply aren't up to the job when there's a line crossed between fans. They aren't paid or equipped enough to control the situation and it escalates as it did the other night. There will be repercussions after this game and some of those responsible will be getting woken up early and will be bemoaning disproportionate sentencing in weeks to come.
My "extra" ticket went to my son who is not a moron either..
Palace can't require Charlton to pay for damage, as I believe has been explored previously when this happened, which is logical because Charlton as a club have no control over it.
That's probably legally sound - however it would be interesting if that were ever challenged in a court of law. It could be argued (successfully or unsuccessfully, I don't know) that the club has vicarious liability as it was the club who made the ticket available to the little scroats.
Dont know whats the matter with these people. I am perfectly happy going all Green St or Football Factory in the safety of my own room and with the help of a keybord. Proper tasty i am in my head.
Dont know whats the matter with these people. I am perfectly happy going all Green St or Football Factory in the safety of my own room and with the help of a keybord. Proper tasty i am in my head.
It's Pwopa BTW
You bringing it on son?
Let's 'ave it
H ld ON my ke board is p ying up i ain' br1ckn it i an pwopa hard onl ne
The feral behaviour manifests itself at the local Derbies. On Tuesday/Wednesday night in Birmingham and North London, and in the concrete wastelands of greater Croydon what replicated itself was the 4000 year old battle in a territorial, tribal Reenactment of man basic ape coming to the surface. Aided by drink and drugs and being in the pack with fellow high as a kite Neanderthals. Crystal Palace and the Police made so many basic fundamental mistakes that you would've thought that they don't have any intelligence on who was going to come out of the woodwork for this match.
Rule 1. The Arthur Wait stand should've been just CAFC people and block off RS and YZ at either end so you don't get the close up goading and the bottle throwing.
Rule 2. what bright spark decided to sell bottle of drink inside the ground and when thrown, hit CAFC people ?
Rule3 Don't block off the Whitehorse lane/ park road exit and send fans back to the Homesdale road bottleneck. most of us going that way were car drivers on the night so weren't drinking which would clear the way for the police to get to the real problem area 100 yards away.
Rule 4 if you move coaches, let the fans know before they leave the stadium where they should go.
NB, I said prior to last night's game, that there should be more stewards inside the ground to try & prevent vandalism of the seats & toilets. Once again it ain't rocket science, but if there were more stewards, it wasn't apparent.
Much of the trouble could have been prevented, if there weren't incompetents making decisions.
I assume the home team pays for the stewards, so why would palace shell out extra money when they can just bill CAFC for uIe damage. They might as well have just smashed up the valley
With a cup game the cost of the stewards comes out of the total receipts, which are shared after these deductions. So both clubs pay. I don't think there is any provision in the rules for damage, so it's unlikely there is any mechanism for that to be charged to Charlton short of intervention by the FL (or FA) or agreement between the clubs.
With a league game and no (significant) revenue split, the issue wouldn't arise. Palace can't require Charlton to pay for damage, as I believe has been explored previously when this happened, which is logical because Charlton as a club have no control over it.
Could you have a guestimate as to Charlton's net receipts for the game?
Less than I originally thought, because the crowd was lower. Based on the ticket prices I reckon the net receipts were somewhere around the £200k mark, maybe a bit under. If expenses were £30k, you'd probably be looking at 45 per cent of, say, £160k, which is £72k, so a ballpark estimate would be about £75k.
Expenses could be a lot higher, but I don't know how much of the policing costs will have been picked up.
19.1 The proceeds of each match after paying thereout the travelling expenses of the Visiting Club, the ground and other expenses of the match including Value Added Tax, floodlighting of the playing pitch and ancillary lighting (not to exceed £200), advertising, printing, postage, police charges, turnstile operators, stewards, contribution to first aid helpers and clearing the ground of snow, provided in the case of the last mentioned item the Visiting Club is notified in advance of the match in question of the approximate cost (such net proceeds being hereinafter referred to as ‘the Net Cup Competition Gate’) shall save as set out below be divided as follows:
19.1.1 45 per cent to each Club taking part in such match; and
19.1.2 10 per cent to the Cup Competition Pool (hereinafter called ‘the Pool Account’) the proceeds of which are to be divided at the end of the Competition in the ratio 1:1 between
a) the Clubs in The Premier League; and b) the Clubs in The Football League.
19.1 The proceeds of each match after paying thereout the travelling expenses of the Visiting Club, the ground and other expenses of the match including Value Added Tax, floodlighting of the playing pitch and ancillary lighting (not to exceed £200), advertising, printing, postage, police charges, turnstile operators, stewards, contribution to first aid helpers and clearing the ground of snow, provided in the case of the last mentioned item the Visiting Club is notified in advance of the match in question of the approximate cost (such net proceeds being hereinafter referred to as ‘the Net Cup Competition Gate’) shall save as set out below be divided as follows:
19.1.1 45 per cent to each Club taking part in such match; and
19.1.2 10 per cent to the Cup Competition Pool (hereinafter called ‘the Pool Account’) the proceeds of which are to be divided at the end of the Competition in the ratio 1:1 between
a) the Clubs in The Premier League; and b) the Clubs in The Football League.
Could damage caused by our fans not be claimed by Palace (probably rightly so) as "expenses of...the ground" under 19.1 ?
19.1 The proceeds of each match after paying thereout the travelling expenses of the Visiting Club, the ground and other expenses of the match including Value Added Tax, floodlighting of the playing pitch and ancillary lighting (not to exceed £200), advertising, printing, postage, police charges, turnstile operators, stewards, contribution to first aid helpers and clearing the ground of snow, provided in the case of the last mentioned item the Visiting Club is notified in advance of the match in question of the approximate cost (such net proceeds being hereinafter referred to as ‘the Net Cup Competition Gate’) shall save as set out below be divided as follows:
19.1.1 45 per cent to each Club taking part in such match; and
19.1.2 10 per cent to the Cup Competition Pool (hereinafter called ‘the Pool Account’) the proceeds of which are to be divided at the end of the Competition in the ratio 1:1 between
a) the Clubs in The Premier League; and b) the Clubs in The Football League.
Could damage caused by our fans not be claimed by Palace (probably rightly so) as "expenses of...the ground" under 19.1 ?
Interesting idea, although I doubt it, personally. Others may know better, but I think it's more to do with stuff like cleaning, pitch covers, hot-air blowers, etc. Bear in mind that they can't charge things like programme or catering staff costs, because that revenue isn't split. To be honest the actual cost of the damage is going to be negligible within a Premier League budget, even if that provides no justification for it. The main cost will be the policing.
Even if damage costs were allowable under this rule, it would still be split between the clubs and the pool, because these items come off the top before the split. I doubt if the FL would accept they should contribute 10 per cent out of the pool.
No brainer for me, have a couple of big stewards in each toilet.
Which is what they did have in the newer toilets at the far end of the stand and which weren't, when I used them just before the third goal, damaged
So the old ones didn't have any stewards in? Those old toilets need changing, leave them for Charlton fans to smash up and we'll get them to play for them.
if they gave us the whole stand, which there was no good reason not to give us as the rest of the ground was empty!!, it would of been so much easier to police, block empty at either end all Charlton in 1stand could of got everyone in quicker aswell as we were waiting for about 30 mins to get in, the throwing bottles and breaking stuff up is obviously wanky behaviour and just wrong were not millwall or leeds, the swearing and gesturing no problem with what so ever its at every game at every club in the country, as mentioned before these sort of games are always going to have these sort of problems, but the police did a pretty bad job of it they had a bad attitude anyway when I left at 3-1 can I go to norwood junction and I was met with no when I asked a reason he simply replied because I said so, after 5 mins he did let us go but no need for it there was only 2 of us
I don't think adding another 2,000 Charlton to the situation would have made it less boisterous!
Same amount of tickets 2900 but both ends RS and YZ not used.(only CAFC in Arthur Waite) i predicted 8k empty seats there were 10 K more space between fans during the game.
Shouldn't be the hardest job in the world to police 16k people even if 2k are drugged or pissed. I thought these top police men went to Uni and knew about stadium control.
What sort of light weight buys beer and doesn't drink it, but throws it hitting you own fans. Those Pratts should have been with the ultras. What too old ?
Comments
but rest assured our idiots will return the compliment.
Oh yeah one question how many coaches to a local derby?
What's your point about the coaches? For a lot of our fans this game is not local and maybe they don't have transport or don't want the grief of parking up at away games. Therefore they get the coach. Not really an issue is it?
With a league game and no (significant) revenue split, the issue wouldn't arise. Palace can't require Charlton to pay for damage, as I believe has been explored previously when this happened, which is logical because Charlton as a club have no control over it.
Lisa (@Troomp) said: “Thank you to the #CAFC fan who helped my brother shield my mum from bottles and being pushed over in Holmesdale Road last night. #CPFC.”
On Tuesday/Wednesday night in Birmingham and North London, and in the concrete wastelands of greater Croydon what replicated itself was the 4000 year old battle in a territorial, tribal Reenactment of man basic ape coming to the surface.
Aided by drink and drugs and being in the pack with
fellow high as a kite Neanderthals.
Crystal Palace and the Police made so many basic fundamental mistakes that you would've thought that they don't have any intelligence on who was going to come out of the woodwork for this match.
Rule 1. The Arthur Wait stand should've been just CAFC people and block off
RS and YZ at either end so you don't get the close up goading and the bottle throwing.
Rule 2. what bright spark decided to sell bottle of drink inside the ground and when thrown, hit CAFC people ?
Rule3 Don't block off the Whitehorse lane/ park road exit and send fans back to
the Homesdale road bottleneck. most of us going that way were car drivers on the
night so weren't drinking which would clear the way for the police to get to the real problem area 100 yards away.
Rule 4 if you move coaches, let the fans know before they leave the stadium where they should go.
Expenses could be a lot higher, but I don't know how much of the policing costs will have been picked up.
19.1 The proceeds of each match after paying thereout the travelling expenses of the Visiting Club, the ground and other expenses of the match including Value Added Tax, floodlighting of the playing pitch and ancillary lighting (not to exceed £200), advertising, printing, postage, police charges, turnstile operators, stewards, contribution to first aid helpers and clearing the ground of snow, provided in the case of the last mentioned item the Visiting Club is notified in advance of the match in question of the approximate cost (such net proceeds being hereinafter referred to as ‘the Net Cup Competition Gate’) shall save as set out below be divided as follows:
19.1.1 45 per cent to each Club taking part in such match; and
19.1.2 10 per cent to the Cup Competition Pool (hereinafter called ‘the Pool Account’) the proceeds of which are to be divided at the end of the Competition in the ratio 1:1 between
a) the Clubs in The Premier League; and
b) the Clubs in The Football League.
Even if damage costs were allowable under this rule, it would still be split between the clubs and the pool, because these items come off the top before the split. I doubt if the FL would accept they should contribute 10 per cent out of the pool.
4 stewards, 2 in each toliet = £200.
Smashed up toilets = ?
No brainer for me, have a couple of big stewards in each toilet.
Perhaps Palace wanted the old toilets smashed up, so CAFC would have to pay for some new ones ?
Some things never change, they will probably offer to take one of our players instead.
Those old toilets need changing, leave them for Charlton fans to smash up and we'll get them to play for them.
Not saying it's right to smash them up.
more space between fans during the game.
Shouldn't be the hardest job in the world to police 16k people even if 2k are drugged or pissed. I thought these top police men went to Uni and knew about stadium control.
What sort of light weight buys beer and doesn't drink it, but throws it hitting you own fans. Those Pratts should have been with the ultras.
What too old ?