He is worth what others would be prepared to pay him. Another option is to try to re-open negottations in a few months and park it for now. He has the opportunity to impress other clubs and increase potential wages so shouldn't be detrimental playing wise. We will have a greater sense of whether he is worth more money then. The problem is, his form before his injury suggested he could play in the Championship but after the injury he was pretty poor.
If we have serious aspirations to gain promotion to the Championship then Magennis is exactly the type of player we need to keep.
Whether he is good enough for a higher level or not is irrelevant at this stage. What we do know is that he was able to score double figures in the league we are in with 'service' from a midfield that was indifferent if not downright poor for most of the season and thus is exactly the type of player to get us promoted.
As anyone who saw the home Bristol Rovers game will tell you, to give the clearest example, he is able to create chances for himself, even if he doesn't always take them, a comparative rarity amongst most of the dross we have had masquerading as 'strikers' of late.
He got injured against Millwall at The Valley and, in my view, came back not fully recovered and thus looked out of sorts. He regained his form towards the end of the season.
He is a bully - in the best sense of the word. He let's defenders know he is there early doors and puts them on the back foot. Initially, it is showing his power when he doesn't really need to - but this puts the fear into the defender. He got injured against Millwall doing this - going for a challenge he didn't need to - but that is part of his game. It may be easier to do this against League One defenders.
If I thought there was a chance of a suitable replacement coming in, I wouldn't be too fussed.
But we all know that the gap will be plugged with yet another loan.
Transfer windows under this mob are Groundhog Day personified. Same old same old.
Yes, many of us keep saying that, but you still get a number of fans expecting the next window to be different. At least we that have worked it out are less disapointed - although no less frustrated!
I like Josh and losing him would be a big blow. Gives Robinson and the regime even more of an excuse for failure. We needed to add a striker not lose one. If Josh goes we have to add TWO with a week to go. Fresh start my arse.
I've no special knowledge here but it seems we've left things a little late in negotiating with Josh ? We heard for weeks and weeks of an offer on the table for Ricky Holmes and yet we've left it dangerously late in talking with Magennis or has the Holmes situation just eclipsed the Macgennis one ? The fact this has just emerged leads me to think we havnt been speaking with him that long.
If JM really wants out and won't sign an extension then we need to sell him now. His January value will be much much less. Another couple of weeks talking to him, his agent and possibly other interested clubs will not leave enough time to get in his replacement. That will effectively end our season before it starts. Can you really see Duchatelet spending what's required on a replacement without Macgennis already being out the door. In any case finding and signing said replacement won't be simple and clubs will have us over a barrel.
I'm not going to criticise the club without the full picture being available but it does look like another management fuck up.
I disagree that we need to sell him now. We shouldn't sell him until we have a replacement - I don't see why we can't continue conversations with Josh and get someone else lined up as insurance if those talks fail, that would be the sensible approach surely?
Agree it would be the most sensible approach but also recognising we are in the last few weeks of the window. It's not been something we've just found out about. We've known Josh's contract has been approaching the last year since well, he signed it. We should be at the point of concluding the talks with him not just finding out he either wants away or wants mega bucks. It's all far far too late.
Either Josh holds us over a barrel (and good luck to him) or other clubs and players do when we seek out a replacement.
It's just not good management of resources yet again. Do you really think we have a list of strikers identified and tentative approaches made ? Or are we now scouring the lists of unattached and freebies.
I have no confidence this can end well. In fact it's a lose lose situation. The club is either forced to pay Josh whatever he wants or pay some other club or player over the odds because we are desperate.
I agree that it is not looking good but CL is full of criticisms of the long contracts that have crippled us.
We need to remember that players will not sign long term contracts on low salaries. I'm sure we could get him to sign a five year deal on £12k a week, then next season we can loan him out and get another club to pay half of it for us!
Every player has a value and as a club we are (and should be) looking to get value from the players for their contribution just like a player's agent should be looking to get a very good financial package for a player based on how much he, genuinely, contributes.
Like Holmes earlier in the summer, I would much rather lose a player (no matter how good he is) than risk the club's financial future by committing to a contract that leaves us stuck with him long after we no longer want him.
Those that have slagged the club off for the silly wages of players we cannot shift can't be coming on here and damanding that a 27 year old, third division, striker be paid what ever he wants.
If he will stay for a wage that he is worth then great, if not he can stay on what he is earning, or he can leave. We mustn't be bullied into paying way over the odds just because we have made the mistake before and the players 'Want what he has'. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Those running the club have made many mistakes but when they are accused of incompetence all the time it starts to lose credibility.
He's one of the few decent players we have at this level. If he goes, and we don't get a better replacement (ie not Lee Irwin), then we are going to struggle yet again. How anyone can think we are looking for promotion is beyond me...
I don't think he's done enough to justify a jump in wages, myself. Maybe a little bump depending on what he's on as he's come in and impressed, but as a striker his record isn't up there with the best in the division.
If I was Robinson I'd be tempted to play hard ball - we'll give you "x", and as soon as you hit 15 goals this season then we'll bump it to "y". If not and he's asking for too much I'd start offering him around.
Holmes is a different animal in this division if he can reproduce what he did last year.
We need to sign a striker anyway. Do this before continuing negotiations.
At this moment he is the one in the strongest negotiating position as he is the only player in the squad that can play up front. Get a really good striker and he will be the backup striker worth even less.
I think I echo most of what has already been said, but IMO, Magennis is a quality League 1 striker.
He leads by example, the effort was there, he's relatively quick, good in the air and can score a few goals. Not sure you can expect more from a striker at this level.
However, he is the Yann in our team and we needed a BWP. I don't think Magennis could have scored 20 goals this season. He is not a prolific enough goalscorer in a 4231, more suited to having a goalscoring partner in a 442.
I wouldn't mind losing him if Robbo could go out and spend money on a striker who could score goals and fit the system.
The biggest problem is we would lose a good striker and expect Novak/Watt/KAG to fill his boots, and maybe a cheap replacement. That has always been the issue under this lot and won't change.
I don't think he's done enough to justify a jump in wages, myself. Maybe a little bump depending on what he's on as he's come in and impressed, but as a striker his record isn't up there with the best in the division.
If I was Robinson I'd be tempted to play hard ball - we'll give you "x", and as soon as you hit 15 goals this season then we'll bump it to "y". If not and he's asking for too much I'd start offering him around.
Holmes is a different animal in this division if he can reproduce what he did last year.
What if Novak is being paid double though. Magennis was one of our top players last year IMO and probably doesn't deserve much less than Holmes and Pearce, if at all.
This discussion is pretty meaningless without figures. Supposedly the Holmes contract issue dragged on because the club would not meet its own benchmark set for underachieving other players.
The problem is that the club has an extensive, recent and continuing history of paying "silly money" for the wrong players, so the "right" players will expect the same. Especially when new signings come in on similar "silly money" too and the manager has a habit of being indiscreet about the sums players are on.
A centre forward with a reasonable goal scoring record will reasonably expect to be either the best paid or one of the best paid players at the club. If the offer doesn't reflect that, it's not him who is being silly.
My stance is he is no world beater but he is definitely effective in this division and definitely effective in a 4231 where you need your striker to be mobile, able to hold up the ball, bring others into play and provide assists.
Josh was the 4th fastest player at the Euro's last year - he really is that fast He's as strong as an ox Good in the air Reasonable finisher.
Let's be honest - he looks and plays like (fat)Ronaldo used to and if he could finish like him we'd have never seen him in a Charlton shirt.
Someone near me quoted a Kilmarnock fan as saying "If he could finish he'd be worth £20m". Slight exaggeration but the sentiment is about right.
If he's on £2/3k a week then he deserves a pay rise. And a hefty one at that. If Ajose is on £6k a week then he deserves AT LEAST that. He is the best striker at the club by a mile.
They will realise far too late that to replace him with even an adequate replacement (let alone a better player) will cost them even more. Or, they won't and tell Robinson he will have to make do.
Or they'll try & get Yann & pay him more than he was looking for 3 years ago
I don't think he's done enough to justify a jump in wages, myself. Maybe a little bump depending on what he's on as he's come in and impressed, but as a striker his record isn't up there with the best in the division.
If I was Robinson I'd be tempted to play hard ball - we'll give you "x", and as soon as you hit 15 goals this season then we'll bump it to "y". If not and he's asking for too much I'd start offering him around.
Holmes is a different animal in this division if he can reproduce what he did last year.
Knowing us we would set a target of say 15 goals.........when he reaches 14 we'll stick him in the resssies!
They will realise far too late that to replace him with even an adequate replacement (let alone a better player) will cost them even more. Or, they won't and tell Robinson he will have to make do.
Or they'll try & get Yann & pay him more than he was looking for 3 years ago
I'd love Yann back but he was great in the Championship last year. If Reading see him as surplus to requirements there will be plenty of more attractive suitors higher up the pyramid.
You're probably right on their negotiating tactics though
They will realise far too late that to replace him with even an adequate replacement (let alone a better player) will cost them even more. Or, they won't and tell Robinson he will have to make do.
Or they'll try & get Yann & pay him more than he was looking for 3 years ago
To be fair to the club, if he's asking for silly money then they need to say no.
I'd rather just play him for the year than dump him off for next to nothing though. He's going to be playing for a transfer so won't put in bad performances.
Am I correct in saying we only paid 250k for him ? So hardly a fortune, they can allow him to run his contract down surely. There again we are talking about this cancerous crowd so no doubt we'll let him go out on loan & pay 90% of his wages & promote a 14 year old from one of the youth teams
Tucadean plays for Romanian Champions Viitorul Constanta and was sent off last night in their 1-0 first leg win against APOEL Nicosia in the Champions League Qualifiers!!
Remember us beating Apoel 9 - 0 in pre season friendly around 69/70/71 (getting old memory fading ) & then they drew with the arse 0-0 a few days later
This discussion is pretty meaningless without figures. Supposedly the Holmes contract issue dragged on because the club would not meet its own benchmark set for underachieving other players.
The problem is that the club has an extensive, recent and continuing history of paying "silly money" for the wrong players, so the "right" players will expect the same. Especially when new signings come in on similar "silly money" too and the manager has a habit of being indiscreet about the sums players are on.
A centre forward with a reasonable goal scoring record will reasonably expect to be either the best paid or one of the best paid players at the club. If the offer doesn't reflect that, it's not him who is being silly.
This is a very important point - footballers will ask why is X getting paid mor ethan me. This seems to be lost on so many people. Tex was a decent player, but when we bought him when the chances of avoiding relegation were already pretty slim, £12k a week on a 4 year deal for a 31 year old made my jaw drop. It not only causes problems in terms of your budget but for players contributing more and getting much less.
People that point to money the owner has spent on the club, just don't seem to get that how you spend it is important. If you do it in a clueless way, you create all sorts of issues. When Meire says we have one of teh highest budgets in teh division, it is meaningless as most of it seems to be peed up the wall.
The amount of money the owner has put into the club is not a reason I am protesting, but that his incompetence and the incompetence of his employees are destroying my club. I have said before, but when he goes, as he surely will, he won't give a damn about the damage he has done, it will be us suffereing the consequences. I know most fans get this, but I wish all of them would.
I would like him to stay, and also for a credible addition in his position with a new signing. I would be glad to hear Josh is not kicking off, but being measured and orderly in his negotiations, because I find him to be one of the most likeable players we have had for years.
Comments
Whether he is good enough for a higher level or not is irrelevant at this stage. What we do know is that he was able to score double figures in the league we are in with 'service' from a midfield that was indifferent if not downright poor for most of the season and thus is exactly the type of player to get us promoted.
As anyone who saw the home Bristol Rovers game will tell you, to give the clearest example, he is able to create chances for himself, even if he doesn't always take them, a comparative rarity amongst most of the dross we have had masquerading as 'strikers' of late.
He got injured against Millwall at The Valley and, in my view, came back not fully recovered and thus looked out of sorts. He regained his form towards the end of the season.
If I thought there was a chance of a suitable replacement coming in, I wouldn't be too fussed.
But we all know that the gap will be plugged with yet another loan.
Transfer windows under this mob are Groundhog Day personified. Same old same old.
Gives Robinson and the regime even more of an excuse for failure.
We needed to add a striker not lose one. If Josh goes we have to add TWO with a week to go.
Fresh start my arse.
Either Josh holds us over a barrel (and good luck to him) or other clubs and players do when we seek out a replacement.
It's just not good management of resources yet again. Do you really think we have a list of strikers identified and tentative approaches made ? Or are we now scouring the lists of unattached and freebies.
I have no confidence this can end well. In fact it's a lose lose situation. The club is either forced to pay Josh whatever he wants or pay some other club or player over the odds because we are desperate.
SHAMBOLIC.
We need to remember that players will not sign long term contracts on low salaries. I'm sure we could get him to sign a five year deal on £12k a week, then next season we can loan him out and get another club to pay half of it for us!
Every player has a value and as a club we are (and should be) looking to get value from the players for their contribution just like a player's agent should be looking to get a very good financial package for a player based on how much he, genuinely, contributes.
Like Holmes earlier in the summer, I would much rather lose a player (no matter how good he is) than risk the club's financial future by committing to a contract that leaves us stuck with him long after we no longer want him.
Those that have slagged the club off for the silly wages of players we cannot shift can't be coming on here and damanding that a 27 year old, third division, striker be paid what ever he wants.
If he will stay for a wage that he is worth then great, if not he can stay on what he is earning, or he can leave. We mustn't be bullied into paying way over the odds just because we have made the mistake before and the players 'Want what he has'. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Those running the club have made many mistakes but when they are accused of incompetence all the time it starts to lose credibility.
If I was Robinson I'd be tempted to play hard ball - we'll give you "x", and as soon as you hit 15 goals this season then we'll bump it to "y". If not and he's asking for too much I'd start offering him around.
Holmes is a different animal in this division if he can reproduce what he did last year.
At this moment he is the one in the strongest negotiating position as he is the only player in the squad that can play up front. Get a really good striker and he will be the backup striker worth even less.
Maybe this is why KM wanted a striker!
He leads by example, the effort was there, he's relatively quick, good in the air and can score a few goals. Not sure you can expect more from a striker at this level.
However, he is the Yann in our team and we needed a BWP. I don't think Magennis could have scored 20 goals this season. He is not a prolific enough goalscorer in a 4231, more suited to having a goalscoring partner in a 442.
I wouldn't mind losing him if Robbo could go out and spend money on a striker who could score goals and fit the system.
The biggest problem is we would lose a good striker and expect Novak/Watt/KAG to fill his boots, and maybe a cheap replacement. That has always been the issue under this lot and won't change.
The problem is that the club has an extensive, recent and continuing history of paying "silly money" for the wrong players, so the "right" players will expect the same. Especially when new signings come in on similar "silly money" too and the manager has a habit of being indiscreet about the sums players are on.
A centre forward with a reasonable goal scoring record will reasonably expect to be either the best paid or one of the best paid players at the club. If the offer doesn't reflect that, it's not him who is being silly.
Josh was the 4th fastest player at the Euro's last year - he really is that fast
He's as strong as an ox
Good in the air
Reasonable finisher.
Let's be honest - he looks and plays like (fat)Ronaldo used to and if he could finish like him we'd have never seen him in a Charlton shirt.
Someone near me quoted a Kilmarnock fan as saying "If he could finish he'd be worth £20m". Slight exaggeration but the sentiment is about right.
If he's on £2/3k a week then he deserves a pay rise. And a hefty one at that. If Ajose is on £6k a week then he deserves AT LEAST that. He is the best striker at the club by a mile.
You're probably right on their negotiating tactics though
http://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/kermorgant-injured-reading-striker-shortage-13319415
"Josh Magennis has not rejected contract offer from Charlton. I know that rumour has been knocking about."
- Rich Cawley on Twitter
All very mysterious...
Sorry back on thread
People that point to money the owner has spent on the club, just don't seem to get that how you spend it is important. If you do it in a clueless way, you create all sorts of issues. When Meire says we have one of teh highest budgets in teh division, it is meaningless as most of it seems to be peed up the wall.
The amount of money the owner has put into the club is not a reason I am protesting, but that his incompetence and the incompetence of his employees are destroying my club. I have said before, but when he goes, as he surely will, he won't give a damn about the damage he has done, it will be us suffereing the consequences. I know most fans get this, but I wish all of them would.
I would be glad to hear Josh is not kicking off, but being measured and orderly in his negotiations, because I find him to be one of the most likeable players we have had for years.