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CAFC staff threaten to sue Duchatelet over unpaid bonuses

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  • I don’t think anyone is defending the non payment if staff genuinely felt they were going to get it but we only have the headlines to interpret.

    I fear the staff don’t have a legal basis to claim if it was always positioned as a discretionary bonus. Reading beteeen the lines the club chose not to reveal they wouldn’t pay it until the 11th hour ie exploited the goodwill.

    Don’t know if this is the first time such a bonus was offered or not or if any precedent under RD to judge this years non payment on. If it were a flat 10% for all that is actually quite generous and likely why staff feel aggrieved now. But we haven’t seen any details on how it was positioned.

    Very very poor management but not unique by any means.

    Maybe just maybe the reason he did it was because he (RD) won’t have to deal with the fallout in staff relations because he fully expects to be gone. That’s the only glimmer of hope I see.

    Which sort of shows what a class A cockwomble the man is. He is publicly saying that these cuts are necessary in order to reduce costs and make the club more attractive to a buyer, but in this case his idea was actually to leave a (very small given the sale price quoted) financial bonus to pay for any new buyer which he had no intention of paying himself. So really actually making the finances a degree less attractive, not more so.
  • Not a second more
  • iainment said:

    _MrDick said:

    If I were an employee of Charlton Athletic, right now, I wouldn’t be working anything other than my contracted hours. If I’m paid for 37.5 hours per week, then that’s what I’d be working. Wouldn’t do another minute unless I was paid overtime. What are they going to do, sack all of the staff for working contracted hours ...

    Yep absolutely. Work to rule I think it's called - don't do anything over and above what you are contracted to do.
    What sort of idiot does more than they are contracted to? You are selling your labour and if your boss expects more than what's agreed then there's something wrong. And if you do so voluntarily then you're just undervaluing yourself.
    I never have and never will work for free. No one should.
    The sort of idiot that supports the club they work for.
    I very much doubt there are many idiots who work for our club that also support it.
    There probably are a few employees who support Charlton but I think it would be fair to assume there are many more who do the job they do because its a job. Its a lovely thought that the clubs employees have a sentimental attachment to it but I think its a little simpler than that, they have done a job asked of them and now expect payment.
    Whilst a lot of people in any job do over and above there are many that do what they're required to do and do it efficiently in the time they are contracted for. Most of us have probably worked with the busy drama queen who has to let be known how stressed an overworked they are.
    My view has always been if you work over and above your contracted hours or the workload becomes excessive, there is something very wrong with either yourself, (not capable of doing the job),or there is something wrong with the company. The latter might be true about Charlton
  • N01R4M said:

    @iainment I sincerely hope that if you have kids their teachers do not share your attitude! Because, believe me, schools would be unable to function without many hours of unpaid overtime done by the staff.

    I am sure education is far from being unique (and I don't mean weird) in this respect, but it is a profession of which I have long experience, and can therefore speak with personal knowledge.

    My wife is a nurse, she runs operating theatres.

    She can't just go home at the end of a shift if that means there is no one in the operating theatre or enough staff to cover an emergency.

    Obviously, that is in part due to much larger problems in the NHS but she, and many like her, are not idiots, thanks very much @iainment but I know who is.
    I hope she gets the time back. I wouldn't want anyone to be burned out by unnecessary demands of a job.
    As you say there are larger problems in the NHS which if addressed might mean relying on vocational guilt would be lessened.
  • No doubt Roland paid the staff an extra bonus when he received the windfall from selling Fox and Lookman.
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  • If you read the letter from the staff to RD the opening sentence says and I quote “ we wish to express our extreme disappointment at your decision not to pay hard working staff the money that had been previously promised based on our performances this year.
    The letter goes onto talk about the staff working above and beyond their contractural requirements for the good of the club. RD and his board, Richard Murray, are the ones that have quite clearly not met their targets due to complete mismanagement off the field.
    However leaving this to one side, the biggest ‘crime’ here is NOT to tell the staff until some 20 days after the bonuses should have been paid that they are not getting them. That is not excuseable and shows a cowardly streak by both of the aforementioned people.
    It can’t have been a surprise to RD/RM that the club were going to have a bad financial year (if it was a surprise then there is no hope for us while these two Charlie’s are in charge), so why not tell the staff the bonuses promised weren’t coming a few months ago? Perhaps when the season finished? To not say anything is indefensible and not how ANY business should be run.
    My advice to the staff is work your contracted hours, refuse to do anything outside of your job description. That’s not striking it’s doing just what you’re paid to do, nothing more nothing less.
    RD needs to understand he can’t treat his staff this way, and I have to ask what RM is doing while this is going on.
    This stinks of an owner who, despite being a millionaire, is a vindictive person with no clue about people who, perhaps, worked really hard to get their bonus, achieved targets, only to be told “sorry we’ve screwed up you get nothing”
    All fans, should stand up for what’s right and moral, not trying to defend the indefensible.
    I’m not a member of any group, just an individual old person that thinks this stinks more than anything else this owner has done over the last 4 years.

    The first point made here is a good one. Bonuses are due, and the club says nothing either way presumably until somebody actually asks where they are. Did Roland think he could wing it, or staff would forget, or it would simply go away?
    Absolute classless behaviour which shows the same contempt for staff that the club shows to fans.
    Even though Duchatelet has no wriggle room on this, he and his apologists will try to find some, probably badly initiated by Cojones.
    This is a very low blow to poorly paid staff and there is no justification for it at all. None.
    Surely anybody can see what a nasty vindictive evil person Duchatelet is. He is impressed by Alan Turings legacy, but unless he bails now his memory and legacy will lead to vinegar being pissed on his grave, not remembered with a smile but a sneer.
  • If only I’d realised I could have called upon the support of CARD in those years when my employer made a loss and I didn’t get paid a bonus...

    If only Roland could rely on more people like you to support his imaginative and innovative leadership of the club all the way to the Conference...
    It's interesting to hear counter views. However if a promise is made by an employer, it should be honoured.
  • Carter said:

    N01R4M said:

    @iainment I sincerely hope that if you have kids their teachers do not share your attitude! Because, believe me, schools would be unable to function without many hours of unpaid overtime done by the staff.

    I am sure education is far from being unique (and I don't mean weird) in this respect, but it is a profession of which I have long experience, and can therefore speak with personal knowledge.

    My wife is a nurse, she runs operating theatres.

    She can't just go home at the end of a shift if that means there is no one in the operating theatre or enough staff to cover an emergency.

    Obviously, that is in part due to much larger problems in the NHS but she, and many like her, are not idiots, thanks very much @iainment but I know who is.
    I'm not going to be popular saying this....

    If anyone works beyond their hours, fair one, they obviously care. They should also be getting payment for their time and acknowledgement in time off in lieu as a minimum. I do tons of extra hours at my place, it's called overtime. If I was to drop dead tomorrow I guarantee my employers would soon find someone else to bully into working for free. I am a grafter however I don't expect to have the piss taken out of me
    What job do you do? In the industry I work in lots of people work extra, it's not working for free, it's enjoying the job you do. That's the pay off.
  • edited August 2018
    iainment said:

    _MrDick said:

    If I were an employee of Charlton Athletic, right now, I wouldn’t be working anything other than my contracted hours. If I’m paid for 37.5 hours per week, then that’s what I’d be working. Wouldn’t do another minute unless I was paid overtime. What are they going to do, sack all of the staff for working contracted hours ...

    Yep absolutely. Work to rule I think it's called - don't do anything over and above what you are contracted to do.
    What sort of idiot does more than they are contracted to? You are selling your labour and if your boss expects more than what's agreed then there's something wrong. And if you do so voluntarily then you're just undervaluing yourself.
    I never have and never will work for free. No one should.
    I can't see many of my fellow news cameramen getting very far if they stopped work every day when their shifts ended.
    But if they didn't get a bonus that they were promised, action would be taken.
  • edited August 2018

    If only I’d realised I could have called upon the support of CARD in those years when my employer made a loss and I didn’t get paid a bonus...

    If only Roland could rely on more people like you to support his imaginative and innovative leadership of the club all the way to the Conference...
    It's interesting to hear counter views. However if a promise is made by an employer, it should be honoured.
    The trouble is there are those on here that only want to hear their own a views.

    I saw a similar but not bonus related employee situation unfold last year where outside groups got involved and the press were made aware of it and all sorts of threats were made. Didn’t make a blind bit of difference to the employer or the outcome for the employees, though I’ve no idea how those employees are getting on in their new careers, assuming they are in employment elsewhere of course - and obviously no longer a concern for the outside group with other causes to kick up a fuss about except the employer saw how easy it was to win last time and did it again.
  • PopIcon said:

    Carter said:

    N01R4M said:

    @iainment I sincerely hope that if you have kids their teachers do not share your attitude! Because, believe me, schools would be unable to function without many hours of unpaid overtime done by the staff.

    I am sure education is far from being unique (and I don't mean weird) in this respect, but it is a profession of which I have long experience, and can therefore speak with personal knowledge.

    My wife is a nurse, she runs operating theatres.

    She can't just go home at the end of a shift if that means there is no one in the operating theatre or enough staff to cover an emergency.

    Obviously, that is in part due to much larger problems in the NHS but she, and many like her, are not idiots, thanks very much @iainment but I know who is.
    I'm not going to be popular saying this....

    If anyone works beyond their hours, fair one, they obviously care. They should also be getting payment for their time and acknowledgement in time off in lieu as a minimum. I do tons of extra hours at my place, it's called overtime. If I was to drop dead tomorrow I guarantee my employers would soon find someone else to bully into working for free. I am a grafter however I don't expect to have the piss taken out of me
    What job do you do? In the industry I work in lots of people work extra, it's not working for free, it's enjoying the job you do. That's the pay off.
    You are one of the truly lucky people in the world. I have no idea what you do but if you do for the love of it, it must be an amazing job.

    I like my job and most of the things that are attached to it but all said and done I do it so I can do the things I want to do when I'm not working.
    Not many would choose working for free over time spent away from it.
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  • I have spent my whole working life working beyond what I am paid for. Obviously I run a small company and I have to work long hours to ensure that we make money and I can pay my staff, in the 25 years I have been part-time at the fire service I have worked lots of unpaid hours as it often doesn't feel like a job. I think KFRS take it for granted what we do and rely on it, but I don't do it for the money. However if I had been promised something and then that wasn't delivered I would probably be thoroughly pissed off.
  • If you read the letter from the staff to RD the opening sentence says and I quote “ we wish to express our extreme disappointment at your decision not to pay hard working staff the money that had been previously promised based on our performances this year.
    The letter goes onto talk about the staff working above and beyond their contractural requirements for the good of the club. RD and his board, Richard Murray, are the ones that have quite clearly not met their targets due to complete mismanagement off the field.
    However leaving this to one side, the biggest ‘crime’ here is NOT to tell the staff until some 20 days after the bonuses should have been paid that they are not getting them. That is not excuseable and shows a cowardly streak by both of the aforementioned people.
    It can’t have been a surprise to RD/RM that the club were going to have a bad financial year (if it was a surprise then there is no hope for us while these two Charlie’s are in charge), so why not tell the staff the bonuses promised weren’t coming a few months ago? Perhaps when the season finished? To not say anything is indefensible and not how ANY business should be run.
    My advice to the staff is work your contracted hours, refuse to do anything outside of your job description. That’s not striking it’s doing just what you’re paid to do, nothing more nothing less.
    RD needs to understand he can’t treat his staff this way, and I have to ask what RM is doing while this is going on.
    This stinks of an owner who, despite being a millionaire, is a vindictive person with no clue about people who, perhaps, worked really hard to get their bonus, achieved targets, only to be told “sorry we’ve screwed up you get nothing”
    All fans, should stand up for what’s right and moral, not trying to defend the indefensible.
    I’m not a member of any group, just an individual old person that thinks this stinks more than anything else this owner has done over the last 4 years.

    It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that the club just went silent on the bonuses when they weren't paid. That's exactly how it went down where I work.

    The sort of people who have the nerve to take your bonus away rarely have the guts to tell you to your face.
  • Bowyer met with a player yesterday , and the clubs trying to arrange a deal ...

    So much for ‘can’t afford it’ in regards of no more than £70k ... but can afford to sign and pay for a kid from the premier league team
  • edited August 2018
    foxjam said:

    More media coverage coming tomorrow.

    Hopefully Belgian media too. That will hurt Roland the most.
    Yes and what's the best way to ensure that all his company employees are aware at Melexis and elsewhere ?
  • foxjam said:

    More media coverage coming tomorrow.

    Hopefully Belgian media too. That will hurt Roland the most.
    Yes and what's the best way to ensure that all his company employees are aware at Melexis and elsewhere.
    Is that because a) they don’t know what RD is like; and b) they really give a shit about a L1 football team in England ?
  • At a rough calculation I have estimated that over my working lifetime I worked at least two extra years unpaid.
    I didn't particularly want to, but it was unavoidable however hard I tried.
    I learned that you either accepted it with as good a grace as you could muster, or went on strike and didn't work at all. There was never any suggestion of a bonus.
    The discussion about how workers are treated goes back at least as far (in the western Christian tradition) to the parable of the vinyard.
  • PopIcon said:

    Carter said:

    N01R4M said:

    @iainment I sincerely hope that if you have kids their teachers do not share your attitude! Because, believe me, schools would be unable to function without many hours of unpaid overtime done by the staff.

    I am sure education is far from being unique (and I don't mean weird) in this respect, but it is a profession of which I have long experience, and can therefore speak with personal knowledge.

    My wife is a nurse, she runs operating theatres.

    She can't just go home at the end of a shift if that means there is no one in the operating theatre or enough staff to cover an emergency.

    Obviously, that is in part due to much larger problems in the NHS but she, and many like her, are not idiots, thanks very much @iainment but I know who is.
    I'm not going to be popular saying this....

    If anyone works beyond their hours, fair one, they obviously care. They should also be getting payment for their time and acknowledgement in time off in lieu as a minimum. I do tons of extra hours at my place, it's called overtime. If I was to drop dead tomorrow I guarantee my employers would soon find someone else to bully into working for free. I am a grafter however I don't expect to have the piss taken out of me
    What job do you do? In the industry I work in lots of people work extra, it's not working for free, it's enjoying the job you do. That's the pay off.
    You are one of the truly lucky people in the world. I have no idea what you do but if you do for the love of it, it must be an amazing job.

    I like my job and most of the things that are attached to it but all said and done I do it so I can do the things I want to do when I'm not working.
    Not many would choose working for free over time spent away from it.
    That's clearly not the case, you only have to look at the amount of people on here who work extra time for the same pay off.

    I know plenty of people in creative industries who never really switch off, the industry is notorious for long hours. I find it amusing that it is people outside of this industry who seem to have most issues with it.

    #RolandOut
  • If only I’d realised I could have called upon the support of CARD in those years when my employer made a loss and I didn’t get paid a bonus...

    If only Roland could rely on more people like you to support his imaginative and innovative leadership of the club all the way to the Conference...
    I think in this case he doesn’t need my support to do that, he’s got CARD. The Sunday editorials could have a field day with this and they might just support the employer in this instance because, I suspect, most of the employees in this country don’t get a bonus, especially if the firm they work didn’t make a profit, unless of course they are contractually entitled to it, in which case i would have thought it would be less awkward for the employees if CARD didn’t make a big fuss.
    Shame shame shame shame shame :smile:
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Roland Out Forever!