@iainment I sincerely hope that if you have kids their teachers do not share your attitude! Because, believe me, schools would be unable to function without many hours of unpaid overtime done by the staff.
I am sure education is far from being unique (and I don't mean weird) in this respect, but it is a profession of which I have long experience, and can therefore speak with personal knowledge.
It's unsustainable then. What happens when the goodwill is exhausted? Fair pay for what is worked is not too much to ask for. The vocation myth is just that and it relies on people accepting being lied to about their contracts and being exploited. There are very few bosses who go above and beyond for their staff unless it helps their career. However there are loads of bosses who expect more than what is contracted for from their staff. Usually with scant recognition.
I'd be interested to know what sort of "bubble" you work in. I worked over and beyond from the first day at work, until the day I retired.
Stick me work van and all the tools in it that it's local government
Hopefully Belgian media too. That will hurt Roland the most.
Yes and what's the best way to ensure that all his company employees are aware at Melexis and elsewhere.
Is that because a) they don’t know what RD is like; and b) they really give a shit about a L1 football team in England ?
I don't think the same situation is so likely to occur in RD's core businesses like Melexis because he seems to have able people in top positions running them for him.
However, I think if I were working in a "Duchatelet family" run business I would be looking very carefully at my contract if I was expecting an end-of-year bonus.
Information about the situation at Charlton has already been tweeted in the direction of the network football clubs (both present and past), and I'm sure more of you could act in a similar fashion.
Both Flemish and Francophone newspapers in Belgium have already carried the news, so I'm sure the situation is already known by employees in places such as Hotel Stayen in Sint-Truiden. It is possible they will have more to say this weekend.
They may not "give a shit" about Charlton, but I'm sure they care about their own wage packets!
I’ve been thinking, the most senior member of staff that this might affect is the COO. If he’s as pissed if as the admin staff, he might think, sod it, I’m off
I just went through a massive restructure, which lasted about 18 months and created a situation where for a year staff that left weren't replaced. That meant that as the workload piled up even more staff left, until my team of 16 was left at about 4. Based on what Roland has said about staff not being replaced and the possible threat of redundancies it all sounds very similar to what's going on at Charlton. Over the course of this restructure I worked some insane hours picking up the work of people who weren't being replaced, all because I care about the place I work and the people who work for me. It sucked, it was incredibly draining and I lost a huge amount of the last year to stress and evenings and weekends spent in the office when I could have been doing something else. I did that because I chose to, but I can tell you if I had been promised a certain amount of money at the end of all this work and it was then taken away from me because the business we knew was failing continued to fail at the rate we knew it would, I can't even imagine how angry I'd feel. If you give your time semi-willingly like I did with no promise of additional reward then that's one thing, but it's abusive to coerce your staff into going to extra mile with the pretense that there will be a financial reward at the end of it.
Roland just continues to erode the things that used to make our club special; by the end of his ownership new people will come in and wonder why there aren't any good people left to help the club's community run like it used to, and it will be because Roland burned out all their goodwill and paid them back for it in lies. It just makes me sad.
There are certain jobs where people work unpaid time, not because they want to, or because they care, or because of pay. If a teacher organized a school trip, and tells the parents to be at the school gate at 9pm to pick up their kids, the teacher can't bog off at 9 if there are still little kids waiting to be collected, they would have to remain there until half past midnight or beyond if necessary. This kind of shit happens regularly to teachers.
@iainment I sincerely hope that if you have kids their teachers do not share your attitude! Because, believe me, schools would be unable to function without many hours of unpaid overtime done by the staff.
I am sure education is far from being unique (and I don't mean weird) in this respect, but it is a profession of which I have long experience, and can therefore speak with personal knowledge.
My wife is a nurse, she runs operating theatres.
She can't just go home at the end of a shift if that means there is no one in the operating theatre or enough staff to cover an emergency.
Obviously, that is in part due to much larger problems in the NHS but she, and many like her, are not idiots, thanks very much @iainment but I know who is.
I'm not going to be popular saying this....
If anyone works beyond their hours, fair one, they obviously care. They should also be getting payment for their time and acknowledgement in time off in lieu as a minimum. I do tons of extra hours at my place, it's called overtime. If I was to drop dead tomorrow I guarantee my employers would soon find someone else to bully into working for free. I am a grafter however I don't expect to have the piss taken out of me
What job do you do? In the industry I work in lots of people work extra, it's not working for free, it's enjoying the job you do. That's the pay off.
I'm an engineer, not that it's in any way relevant. I work hard am professional and my quality and safety record is immaculate. If more work is needed I will do it on my days off, after hours and on call and will only do so if I'm being paid. Beyond anything else you are only insured at work during your scheduled hours. If I decide to start doing stuff when I'm not meant to be at work and heaven forbid I have an accident, damage myself or someone else I would truly be in the shit.
Stuff like this gets people their pensions lost and prison sentences. As much as I don't like a lot of what the EU is about we have to abide by working time rules as well. The maximum (unless you opt out every 17 weeks or something like that) You can work is 48 hours a week. I regularly go over that however I opt out of the working time directive and I get paid for it. It may sound petty but it starts with the odd late finish and before you know it you are doing stuff on a Saturday for free and staying late and starting early all the time and nobody thanks you for it but they will never stop you from doing it.
I laid my cards down early with every boss I have had and I'm right to do so. You want me to work on? Fine, I want paying.
I also give plenty of goodwill. I was up and out at 5am yesterday to get down to Southampton, if I was to leave in normal hours I would barely get there before lunchtime. My boss knows this and if he ever questioned or refused to pay me for the extra hours and early start he can find some other mug to do it for free.
I am not sure what the knock on effect will be but any member of CAFC staff who were panning to work on Saturday or any matchday in the future whilst being unpaid should be standing in the car park with the protesters, not inside the ground.
There are certain jobs where people work unpaid time, not because they want to, or because they care, or because of pay. If a teacher organized a school trip, and tells the parents to be at the school gate at 9pm to pick up their kids, the teacher can't bog off at 9 if there are still little kids waiting to be collected, they would have to remain there until half past midnight or beyond if necessary. This kind of shit happens regularly to teachers.
Yes it does, doesn't make it right though
This is what annoys me, the goodwill is completely taken for granted. And the exact reason that if I something like that I want paying. I never drop what I'm doing if something urgent comes in at hometime and if I couldn't get hold of my boss to agree payment or absolute worst case scenario time off in lieu I would make a record of it and make sure my boss is aware. The irony with needing people to work over and beyond on a regular basis is that they won't ever get a chance to take their time off in lieu.
I will say as well, staff at football clubs will already be working pretty shit hours so I imagine it's made clear to then working for a football club won't be a 9 to 5. This probably makes not getting a promised bonus even harder to swallow, it isn't their fault the owner is an arsehole who has no idea how to run a football club, nor is it their fault the team (although constricted by arsehole owner) have made failure and hitting new lows a speciality. For working these pretty fluid hours I bet they arent paid the market rate either
quite a big report in today's 'Times' about this .. also outlining the state of the club a t m and for the past 4 years .. we are getting so much bad publicity .. we used to be 'Plucky Little Charlton', now we're 'Basket Case Charlton'
Hopefully Belgian media too. That will hurt Roland the most.
Yes and what's the best way to ensure that all his company employees are aware at Melexis and elsewhere.
Is that because a) they don’t know what RD is like; and b) they really give a shit about a L1 football team in England ?
You sir, are an apologist of the highest order. Shame shame shame.
I don’t even think people who aren’t condemning this latest debacle are necessarily apologists, I think in the main they just like to be contrary and/or they will criticise pretty much anything that CARD back regardless of what it is it seems.
@iainment I sincerely hope that if you have kids their teachers do not share your attitude! Because, believe me, schools would be unable to function without many hours of unpaid overtime done by the staff.
I am sure education is far from being unique (and I don't mean weird) in this respect, but it is a profession of which I have long experience, and can therefore speak with personal knowledge.
My wife is a nurse, she runs operating theatres.
She can't just go home at the end of a shift if that means there is no one in the operating theatre or enough staff to cover an emergency.
Obviously, that is in part due to much larger problems in the NHS but she, and many like her, are not idiots, thanks very much @iainment but I know who is.
I'm not going to be popular saying this....
If anyone works beyond their hours, fair one, they obviously care. They should also be getting payment for their time and acknowledgement in time off in lieu as a minimum. I do tons of extra hours at my place, it's called overtime. If I was to drop dead tomorrow I guarantee my employers would soon find someone else to bully into working for free. I am a grafter however I don't expect to have the piss taken out of me
What job do you do? In the industry I work in lots of people work extra, it's not working for free, it's enjoying the job you do. That's the pay off.
You are one of the truly lucky people in the world. I have no idea what you do but if you do for the love of it, it must be an amazing job.
I like my job and most of the things that are attached to it but all said and done I do it so I can do the things I want to do when I'm not working. Not many would choose working for free over time spent away from it.
That's clearly not the case, you only have to look at the amount of people on here who work extra time for the same pay off.
I know plenty of people in creative industries who never really switch off, the industry is notorious for long hours. I find it amusing that it is people outside of this industry who seem to have most issues with it.
#RolandOut
If you work in a creative industry I can see that it is possible to immerse yourself in a job but most don't have these jobs, most have mundane, repetitive, mind numbing, dead end unrewarding jobs. A lot of people like to big their job/themselves up, its human nature, it give a sense of purpose and self-worth. I design bits and bobs for a living so I guess I fit the creative bit but I have also have worked in places where the clock is the boss and the work is repetitive, mind numbing and unrewarding. I seen it from all sides over the years and the long hours bit, your in the minority if you believe its ok.
@iainment I sincerely hope that if you have kids their teachers do not share your attitude! Because, believe me, schools would be unable to function without many hours of unpaid overtime done by the staff.
I am sure education is far from being unique (and I don't mean weird) in this respect, but it is a profession of which I have long experience, and can therefore speak with personal knowledge.
My wife is a nurse, she runs operating theatres.
She can't just go home at the end of a shift if that means there is no one in the operating theatre or enough staff to cover an emergency.
Obviously, that is in part due to much larger problems in the NHS but she, and many like her, are not idiots, thanks very much @iainment but I know who is.
If everyone in the NHS didn’t routinely go above and beyond then I guarantee we wouldn’t have a health service.
Can someone please summarise what was promised and to whom? This sounds like a terrible betrayal of club staff but I'd like to know exactly what RD is doing here
I'll phrase it differently: which members of staff were promised bonuses, how were the promises presented, what targets were met, and when were they supposed to receive the extra money? Answers to all these questions would make the story much more visceral for me. I'm sure RD is letting his employees down but I'd like to know exactly how.
I'll phrase it differently: which members of staff were promised bonuses, how were the promises presented, what targets were met, and when were they supposed to receive the extra money? Answers to all these questions would make the story much more visceral for me. I'm sure RD is letting his employees down but I'd like to know exactly how.
My understanding is that it covers all full-time CAFC staff at The Valley, was given in writing, and was payable on July 31st. There is no dispute the targets were met, he just won’t pay.
I'll phrase it differently: which members of staff were promised bonuses, how were the promises presented, what targets were met, and when were they supposed to receive the extra money? Answers to all these questions would make the story much more visceral for me. I'm sure RD is letting his employees down but I'd like to know exactly how.
Yes indeed. And are the players in solidarity with the back room oiks?
Comments
However, I think if I were working in a "Duchatelet family" run business I would be looking very carefully at my contract if I was expecting an end-of-year bonus.
Information about the situation at Charlton has already been tweeted in the direction of the network football clubs (both present and past), and I'm sure more of you could act in a similar fashion.
Both Flemish and Francophone newspapers in Belgium have already carried the news, so I'm sure the situation is already known by employees in places such as Hotel Stayen in Sint-Truiden. It is possible they will have more to say this weekend.
They may not "give a shit" about Charlton, but I'm sure they care about their own wage packets!
Roland just continues to erode the things that used to make our club special; by the end of his ownership new people will come in and wonder why there aren't any good people left to help the club's community run like it used to, and it will be because Roland burned out all their goodwill and paid them back for it in lies. It just makes me sad.
If a teacher organized a school trip, and tells the parents to be at the school gate at 9pm to pick up their kids, the teacher can't bog off at 9 if there are still little kids waiting to be collected, they would have to remain there until half past midnight or beyond if necessary.
This kind of shit happens regularly to teachers.
Stuff like this gets people their pensions lost and prison sentences. As much as I don't like a lot of what the EU is about we have to abide by working time rules as well. The maximum (unless you opt out every 17 weeks or something like that) You can work is 48 hours a week. I regularly go over that however I opt out of the working time directive and I get paid for it. It may sound petty but it starts with the odd late finish and before you know it you are doing stuff on a Saturday for free and staying late and starting early all the time and nobody thanks you for it but they will never stop you from doing it.
I laid my cards down early with every boss I have had and I'm right to do so. You want me to work on? Fine, I want paying.
I also give plenty of goodwill. I was up and out at 5am yesterday to get down to Southampton, if I was to leave in normal hours I would barely get there before lunchtime. My boss knows this and if he ever questioned or refused to pay me for the extra hours and early start he can find some other mug to do it for free.
This is what annoys me, the goodwill is completely taken for granted. And the exact reason that if I something like that I want paying. I never drop what I'm doing if something urgent comes in at hometime and if I couldn't get hold of my boss to agree payment or absolute worst case scenario time off in lieu I would make a record of it and make sure my boss is aware. The irony with needing people to work over and beyond on a regular basis is that they won't ever get a chance to take their time off in lieu.
A lot of people like to big their job/themselves up, its human nature, it give a sense of purpose and self-worth. I design bits and bobs for a living so I guess I fit the creative bit but I have also have worked in places where the clock is the boss and the work is repetitive, mind numbing and unrewarding. I seen it from all sides over the years and the long hours bit, your in the minority if you believe its ok.
Why don't these journos slip Duchatelets net worth into their articles?
Cleaners get their hours reduced, lowering their income and reducing living standards.
And their employer is a billionaire.
And are the players in solidarity with the back room oiks?