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CAFC staff threaten to sue Duchatelet over unpaid bonuses

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Comments

  • _MrDick
    _MrDick Posts: 13,108
    J BLOCK said:

    Shame on you Murray you nasty piece of work, what exactly are you doing!?

    He’s gone back to bed and is hiding under his duvet waiting for everyone to stop shouting at him
  • carly burn
    carly burn Posts: 19,461
    CARM
  • mistrollingin
    mistrollingin Posts: 3,868

    Murrey is the only board member who regularly attends, don't understand how he has got away with it so far.

    Murray is all about Murray and his gigantic ego, wondering about an empty boardroom dreaming of past glories.

    He's almost as deluded as twoshits, I hope they both f**k off together
  • Oggy Red
    Oggy Red Posts: 44,955

    EFL and Sports Minister saying there is nothing they can do???

    For a start, the EFL can amend their Fit & Proper test to become a licence - to expire after a defined calendar term.

    On expiry, club owners must then re-apply, be re-examined and approved, before regaining the licence. Or declined.

  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,154

    EFL and Sports Minister saying there is nothing they can do???

    Replace nothing they can do with, can't be arsed.
    The fact is, he is right. English football clubs have the status of private businesses. The EFL currently regards itself as simply a trade association that represents its members - the clubs. As does the FAPL. The FA won't play the role of regulator because it does not control the money. It is scared, especially of the FAPL. Wholesale reform of the structure of English football is what is required. When he was Sport Minister, Clive Efford tried to get a bill through Parliament which would have started that reform. How many on here even remember that, let alone know what he was proposing?

    In the short term, IMO the best route is media pressure to shame him, and crucially media coverage which is picked up in Belgium.

    @redredrobin EFL give themselves 21 days to answer. We have had an acknowledgment that it has reached John Nagle. We are counting the days.
  • Fumbluff
    Fumbluff Posts: 10,127
    Mrkinski said:

    Jim has texted RD. Give us his number Jim!

    He probably hasn’t paid that bill either.....
  • grumpyaddick
    grumpyaddick Posts: 6,596
    Reports from Belgium inducate that all eligible staff were issued with special CAFC ATM cards but the cashpoint.had not.been.connected to the bank.
  • se9addick said:

    We have received a bonus here at TfL every year for the last 15 years providing we hit our Customer Services targets. It was only ever announced in an email but this year, that bonus has quietly been pulled with no announcement whatsoever. Even the unions didn't find out until after the date the bonus value should have been announced.

    There's nothing the RMT etc can do as it has never been part of our contracts.

    But it would be a different situation presumably had you received the email saying you were getting your bonus and then it was pulled.
    If it's not in my contract of employment, (which it isn't), there's little I can do about it.

    Don't get me wrong, I think what RD is doing is a disgrace and the staff at the club do have my utmost sympathies over the situation but as others have mentioned Tribunals etc, I just feel that unless they we hired with the bonus as part of their terms and conditions, I don't think they would win.
  • IdleHans
    IdleHans Posts: 10,971
    Without seeing a paper trail (if any) it's impossible to be sure. But if they were set objectives and promised a bonus if the objectives were met, and the objectives have been met, I'd think they are likely to have a very good case.
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  • iainment
    iainment Posts: 8,040

    RedChaser said:

    RedChaser said:

    I reckon Roly has clearly asked for financial cuts to be made at any cost even if it does involve the staff themselves and for that you ask a crawly bum licker filthy pond life slime ball to carry out this filthy act, can anyone think of one .

    Slightly off topic and not sure if it has been mentioned before but it was alleged to me at the weekend that following the stop go works at the training ground and serious problems with Foots Cray Rugby Club's car park, writs had been served on the club in the absence of remedial works. So sounds like it's far from plain sailing for a certain individual at the moment. :open_mouth:
    Someone mentioned to me that Foots Cray Rugby Club are extremely unhappy with how they have been impacted / treated
    My source is very much ITK on this issue and our COO has not covered himself in glory in his dealings or lack of allegedly hence the need for legal action.
    I find that very hard easy to believe
    Unverified rumours? You believe them? Mightn't they effect any legal action?
    How irresponsible you are to keep this out in the open.
  • cabbles
    cabbles Posts: 15,256
    I've always been of the opinion that I will let RM's time and commitment prior to him aligning with RD, not cloud my judgment about him as person for the whole time he's been involved with Charlton, but I think that's hanging on by a thread now.

    It's really poor that he hasn't spoken up about this to RD.

    If and when a takeover goes through, I hope he's nowhere near the new set up as either a director or figurehead or whatever. Be best for all concerned
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,229
    edited August 2018
    iainment said:

    RedChaser said:

    RedChaser said:

    I reckon Roly has clearly asked for financial cuts to be made at any cost even if it does involve the staff themselves and for that you ask a crawly bum licker filthy pond life slime ball to carry out this filthy act, can anyone think of one .

    Slightly off topic and not sure if it has been mentioned before but it was alleged to me at the weekend that following the stop go works at the training ground and serious problems with Foots Cray Rugby Club's car park, writs had been served on the club in the absence of remedial works. So sounds like it's far from plain sailing for a certain individual at the moment. :open_mouth:
    Someone mentioned to me that Foots Cray Rugby Club are extremely unhappy with how they have been impacted / treated
    My source is very much ITK on this issue and our COO has not covered himself in glory in his dealings or lack of allegedly hence the need for legal action.
    I find that very hard easy to believe
    Unverified rumours? You believe them? Mightn't they effect any legal action?
    How irresponsible you are to keep this out in the open.
    1. I didn't start a thread with a title stating it was a fact ie no question mark

    2. The matter isn't about individual's personal finances, unlike yours

    3. Move on
  • Nug
    Nug Posts: 4,623
    When does his hotel open?
  • SOTF
    SOTF Posts: 1,149

    iainment said:

    RedChaser said:

    RedChaser said:

    I reckon Roly has clearly asked for financial cuts to be made at any cost even if it does involve the staff themselves and for that you ask a crawly bum licker filthy pond life slime ball to carry out this filthy act, can anyone think of one .

    Slightly off topic and not sure if it has been mentioned before but it was alleged to me at the weekend that following the stop go works at the training ground and serious problems with Foots Cray Rugby Club's car park, writs had been served on the club in the absence of remedial works. So sounds like it's far from plain sailing for a certain individual at the moment. :open_mouth:
    Someone mentioned to me that Foots Cray Rugby Club are extremely unhappy with how they have been impacted / treated
    My source is very much ITK on this issue and our COO has not covered himself in glory in his dealings or lack of allegedly hence the need for legal action.
    I find that very hard easy to believe
    Unverified rumours? You believe them? Mightn't they effect any legal action?
    How irresponsible you are to keep this out in the open.
    1. I didn't start a thread with a title stating it was a fact ie no question mark

    2. The matter isn't about individual's personal finances, unlike yours

    3. Move on
    Might be worth taking your own advice on point 3 given you were the one who brought it up unnecessarily in the first instance.
  • Nug said:

    When does his hotel open?

    Last stated that it will open in September, but a better estimate is end October/beginning November
  • addick05
    addick05 Posts: 2,348
    Nug said:

    When does his hotel open?

    Guests will probably have to bring their own towels and toilet paper!
  • If an employee can produce communication(s) from the club, their employer, which indicates that rewards will become due on the attainment of (a) defined target/s and demonstrate that said target was achieved, they have prima facie evidence of a contract.

    Contracts require "consideration" from each party. Consideration often being money, or action, or goods.
    In this case attainment of targets is clearly consideration, thus the employee delivers their side of the bargain. Ergo there is breach of contract when the employer reneges on the payment. The remedy is payment of the stipulated sum, in this case the bonus.

    None of that has to be written into an employment contract.

    Practically any grievance arising between employee and employer has to head to an Employment Tribunal for adjudication.
    Employment law in UK presumes, quite reasonably, that employers hold far greater power in relationships with employees.
    Sincerely aggrieved employees do not have to prove to ET's beyond any reasonable doubt that their employer's conduct has been unlawful or criminal, just that the employer has been prejudicial to what an employee could reasonably expect. Where an employee can show something as nebulous as a pattern of behaviour, or customary expectation, the employee can rely on the employer complying. If the employee has an email that implies, let alone states, that if target X is attained, you will receive a bonus of y%; the employer hasn't a leg to stand on.
    Any such case will get no further than the door of the ET, before payment is made, because engaging legal representation to defend the contention at the ET will cost the employer far more than paying the due bonusses.
    None of which, sadly, accounts for the scumsucking twunt factor uniquely brought by the loathsome roly.
  • Dippenhall
    Dippenhall Posts: 3,919
    HMRC tax us on what we are ENTITLED to receive, not how much we actually receive.

    If the bonus is contractual the staff are liable for tax on it regardless.

    A discretionary bonus doesn't mean it's discretionary whether to pay it or not, that would be an ex gratia award. The discretion can only be around the amount. If the amount is fixed in advance as 10% of salary, it is not a discretionary bonus, it is a contractual performance related bonus.

    A contractual term does not have to be in writing to be legally enforceable, just problematic in producing the evidence.
  • Nug
    Nug Posts: 4,623
    addick05 said:

    Nug said:

    When does his hotel open?

    Guests will probably have to bring their own towels and toilet paper!
    Hopefully all the guests will be from a certain part of South East London
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  • IdleHans
    IdleHans Posts: 10,971

    Nug said:

    When does his hotel open?

    Last stated that it will open in September, but a better estimate is end October/beginning November
    It might be chilly by then. Will the boiler be connected?
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,013
    edited August 2018
    addick05 said:

    Nug said:

    When does his hotel open?

    Guests will probably have to bring their own towels and toilet paper!
    You can book Hotel Stayen without a deposit and cancel later.
    It would be legally contractual to do so I believe.
    Rot do you think of that ?
    A bonus ?
  • Fumbluff
    Fumbluff Posts: 10,127

    Nug said:

    When does his hotel open?

    Last stated that it will open in September, but a better estimate is end October/beginning November
    It’s the White Hart Lane of hotels...
  • Nug said:

    When does his hotel open?

    Last stated that it will open in September, but a better estimate is end October/beginning November
    Unless the contractors are on a bonus to complete by.... oh hang on.
  • IdleHans
    IdleHans Posts: 10,971
    edited August 2018
    Hotel Stayen is on Booking.com. If you book a room it seems you can cancel 48 hours before and pay nothing. If enough of us do that, it'll hit him in the pocket and cost us nothing.

    A 'good' breakfast is £11.
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,013
    IdleHans said:

    Hotel Stayen is on Booking.com. If you book a room it seems you can cancel 48 hours before and pay nothing. If enough of us do that, it'll hit him in the pocket and cost us nothing.

    A 'good' breakfast is £11.

    Good idea. I wish I'd thought of that.
  • IdleHans said:

    Hotel Stayen is on Booking.com. If you book a room it seems you can cancel 48 hours before and pay nothing. If enough of us do that, it'll hit him in the pocket and cost us nothing.

    A 'good' breakfast is £11.

    Seems you can book a room for 30-days on there so if you keep repeating you should be able to stop anyone else ever booking
  • HMRC tax us on what we are ENTITLED to receive, not how much we actually receive.

    If the bonus is contractual the staff are liable for tax on it regardless.

    .

    Not true I'm afraid.
    The taxable event is the payment of remuneration, a question of fact, not a question of intention or entitlement.
    Regular staff on PAYE (i.e. not sub-contractors or suppliers) have their tax & NI deductions calculated in each payment period, usually monthly, historically weekly. The NI due is utterly dependent on the funds paid this period, the tax arises on the total paid since the start of the tax year, less the tax deducted in previous periods (this tax year)
    If you receive nothing, no tax or NI can be due.
    Income Tax may be seen as onerous by some but its imputation is rigorously fair. The suggestion that employees could be taxed on funds they never receive is patently ridiculous - if the funds are never transferred from the employer there is no payment from which the deduction can be made.


  • A discretionary bonus doesn't mean it's discretionary whether to pay it or not, that would be an ex gratia award. The discretion can only be around the amount. If the amount is fixed in advance as 10% of salary, it is not a discretionary bonus, it is a contractual performance related bonus.

    This bit is irrefutable and thus has roly and his collaborators banged to rights.