Why has this suddenly become factually labelled a "low risk loan?"
"It will be a real test for him at League One level but we have no doubts about his quality and his potential. It will be a very, very beneficial loan for him – and for Charlton and us. He will go to a club I know well and that I recommended when I heard there was interest." were the words of CP.
Weird from Jackson really. He's criticsed Castillo for not taking his brief chance but Purrington hasn't played well in about 600 years and he's played DJ there rather than anyone else instead. Souare has been sent to the shadow realm as well, it feels a bit petulant, having a player he didn't want so sitting him down while players who don't look any better at the moment continue to play. As for John, he's highly rated but we're continuing to pick players who have been poor for months. Is Elliot Lee really that much better than Nile John on this form? Can that be humanly possible?? The Castillo loan is particularly disappointing as I'd hoped we were going to take a look at him ahead of a potential signing in the summer but Jackson clearly doesn't like him much. It took Jay Dasilva a good old while before he looked anything other than completely out of his depth and he was our POTY the next season when he came back. I don't really know what Jacko's doing to be honest
So Jacko has better options in front of both these lads? Well I'm struggling to see anyone stepping up over the last 8 or 9 games tbf! Castillo looked a bit shaky against MK Dons I think, but he must have something about him to be at Chelsea in the 1st place, surely? And LWB is his natural position we were told. It's odd. John is even stranger though. The fact he's not had a single chance is baffling considering we're so poor in midfield. Might as well chuck him in there and see what he can do now. At least 20mins off the bench, be can't be much worse than the "better" options in front of him.
Even weirder they're not getting any sort of a run with the U23's
It's an interesting point from Cawley and makes you wonder a bit about why our quality loans have dried up recently. We took Matt Smith 1.0 and gave him the odd sub appearance and then sent him out for kebabs and moved house before he got back. Matt Smith 2.0 had his existing loan cancelled to come to us and we barely used him either and Arsenal got their little cherub back worse off than if he'd stayed at Swindon. Swindon. Add Levitt, John and Castillo onto that and teams must be looking wondering what the point is if their player is going away just to get what I would assume is a worse standard of coaching than they would at the parent club.
It's an interesting point from Cawley and makes you wonder a bit about why our quality loans have dried up recently. We took Matt Smith 1.0 and gave him the odd sub appearance and then sent him out for kebabs and moved house before he got back. Matt Smith 2.0 had his existing loan cancelled to come to us and we barely used him either and Arsenal got their little cherub back worse off than if he'd stayed at Swindon. Swindon. Add Levitt, John and Castillo onto that and teams must be looking wondering what the point is if their player is going away just to get what I would assume is a worse standard of coaching than they would at the parent club.
The quality of loan has most definitely dropped. However, I think those who a few years ago would be going to League One are now being signed by bottom half Championship or even some going to Scotland.
When we have had Dasilva, Cullen, Bielik, and Gallagher in recent seasons and now we have since had Levitt, Castillo, and the two Smith’s and John (who hasn’t had the chance to show us what he can do to be fair). Those players we had before are not really dropping to this level anymore. Well, that’s what I think anyway.
I also do think that Gallen really needs a bit of help because he has exhausted his contacts and we only really sign players from specific clubs. Millar was a bit of an odd one out. Most of our loans come from London clubs, understandable when they’re young, but we have to ensure we’re watching every U23 game we possibly can and if we can’t, then hire people to go and specific watch them.
"Also have to keep in mind our relationship with Spurs and how it looks to other big clubs wanting to loan players out" - @Scoham
Too true and have been saying this for some time. People don't quite realise the impact of this alongside some loanees getting serious injuries/overuse with us. Not a great advert. Bow played up our attraction, nobody is doing so now.
"Also have to keep in mind our relationship with Spurs and how it looks to other big clubs wanting to loan players out" - @Scoham
Too true and have been saying this for some time. People don't quite realise the impact of this alongside some loanees getting serious injuries/overuse with us. Not a great advert. Bow played up our attraction, nobody is doing so now.
Bowyer used to say that we attracted youngsters because of him. Because of his "stature" in the game & that we all know he "improves players".
Unfortunately Jackson hasn't got the same standing in the game.
It's an interesting point from Cawley and makes you wonder a bit about why our quality loans have dried up recently. We took Matt Smith 1.0 and gave him the odd sub appearance and then sent him out for kebabs and moved house before he got back. Matt Smith 2.0 had his existing loan cancelled to come to us and we barely used him either and Arsenal got their little cherub back worse off than if he'd stayed at Swindon. Swindon. Add Levitt, John and Castillo onto that and teams must be looking wondering what the point is if their player is going away just to get what I would assume is a worse standard of coaching than they would at the parent club.
The quality of loan has most definitely dropped. However, I think those who a few years ago would be going to League One are now being signed by bottom half Championship or even some going to Scotland.
When we have had Dasilva, Cullen, Bielik, and Gallagher in recent seasons and now we have since had Levitt, Castillo, and the two Smith’s and John (who hasn’t had the chance to show us what he can do to be fair). Those players we had before are not really dropping to this level anymore. Well, that’s what I think anyway.
I also do think that Gallen really needs a bit of help because he has exhausted his contacts and we only really sign players from specific clubs. Millar was a bit of an odd one out. Most of our loans come from London clubs, understandable when they’re young, but we have to ensure we’re watching every U23 game we possibly can and if we can’t, then hire people to go and specific watch them.
Might be stretching your knowledge Sage, but in relation to your point about higher quality players going to bottom half Championship and Scottish teams, how do we compare to other league one teams?
I’m out of touch with the top 6 in our division this season given how far off we are and haven’t been as closely involved this season, but if I take the season we got promoted under Bowyer, I recall Doncaster having Wilkes and Herbie Kane (I think), and thinking Wilkes especially was a decent player.
I know loans are a very localized business in some respects and Wilkes at Doncaster would’ve made sense as I think his parent club were Leeds at the time, but based on your knowledge, are we getting weaker players than the top 6 of our division?
Maybe, though our main competition is other League 1 clubs. JFH is the only “big” name like Bowyer was but he’s managing Burton, one of the smaller clubs in the division.
The John situation is just one more in a line of mysterious recruitment events of recent times. Spurs rate John, Chris Powell probably thought he was doing us a big favour and at least one championship club was interested. Seems the only one who doesn’t rate him is our manager. We’re definitely alienating Spurs and we’ve probably done the same with Arsenal. Loans from Premier League next season from those two might prove a challenge.
It's an interesting point from Cawley and makes you wonder a bit about why our quality loans have dried up recently. We took Matt Smith 1.0 and gave him the odd sub appearance and then sent him out for kebabs and moved house before he got back. Matt Smith 2.0 had his existing loan cancelled to come to us and we barely used him either and Arsenal got their little cherub back worse off than if he'd stayed at Swindon. Swindon. Add Levitt, John and Castillo onto that and teams must be looking wondering what the point is if their player is going away just to get what I would assume is a worse standard of coaching than they would at the parent club.
The quality of loan has most definitely dropped. However, I think those who a few years ago would be going to League One are now being signed by bottom half Championship or even some going to Scotland.
When we have had Dasilva, Cullen, Bielik, and Gallagher in recent seasons and now we have since had Levitt, Castillo, and the two Smith’s and John (who hasn’t had the chance to show us what he can do to be fair). Those players we had before are not really dropping to this level anymore. Well, that’s what I think anyway.
I also do think that Gallen really needs a bit of help because he has exhausted his contacts and we only really sign players from specific clubs. Millar was a bit of an odd one out. Most of our loans come from London clubs, understandable when they’re young, but we have to ensure we’re watching every U23 game we possibly can and if we can’t, then hire people to go and specific watch them.
Might be stretching your knowledge Sage, but in relation to your point about higher quality players going to bottom half Championship and Scottish teams, how do we compare to other league one teams?
I’m out of touch with the top 6 in our division this season given how far off we are and haven’t been as closely involved this season, but if I take the season we got promoted under Bowyer, I recall Doncaster having Wilkes and Herbie Kane (I think), and thinking Wilkes especially was a decent player.
I know loans are a very localized business in some respects and Wilkes at Doncaster would’ve made sense as I think his parent club were Leeds at the time, but based on your knowledge, are we getting weaker players than the top 6 of our division?
If that’s the case then I think we have an issue
I think some of the issue is about how good they were when they left, as opposed to how good they were when we got them.
Cullen had just had a mare of a season at Bolton, Bielik had done about the same as the two Matt Smiths, Dasilva took 3 months to get up to speed. Steer, Ward, the half a dozen others we got in the Robison/Bowyer season were poor to middling.
Gallagher is the real out rider and I think we can all agree that was as much luck as judgment.
It's an interesting point from Cawley and makes you wonder a bit about why our quality loans have dried up recently. We took Matt Smith 1.0 and gave him the odd sub appearance and then sent him out for kebabs and moved house before he got back. Matt Smith 2.0 had his existing loan cancelled to come to us and we barely used him either and Arsenal got their little cherub back worse off than if he'd stayed at Swindon. Swindon. Add Levitt, John and Castillo onto that and teams must be looking wondering what the point is if their player is going away just to get what I would assume is a worse standard of coaching than they would at the parent club.
The quality of loan has most definitely dropped. However, I think those who a few years ago would be going to League One are now being signed by bottom half Championship or even some going to Scotland.
When we have had Dasilva, Cullen, Bielik, and Gallagher in recent seasons and now we have since had Levitt, Castillo, and the two Smith’s and John (who hasn’t had the chance to show us what he can do to be fair). Those players we had before are not really dropping to this level anymore. Well, that’s what I think anyway.
I also do think that Gallen really needs a bit of help because he has exhausted his contacts and we only really sign players from specific clubs. Millar was a bit of an odd one out. Most of our loans come from London clubs, understandable when they’re young, but we have to ensure we’re watching every U23 game we possibly can and if we can’t, then hire people to go and specific watch them.
Might be stretching your knowledge Sage, but in relation to your point about higher quality players going to bottom half Championship and Scottish teams, how do we compare to other league one teams?
I’m out of touch with the top 6 in our division this season given how far off we are and haven’t been as closely involved this season, but if I take the season we got promoted under Bowyer, I recall Doncaster having Wilkes and Herbie Kane (I think), and thinking Wilkes especially was a decent player.
I know loans are a very localized business in some respects and Wilkes at Doncaster would’ve made sense as I think his parent club were Leeds at the time, but based on your knowledge, are we getting weaker players than the top 6 of our division?
If that’s the case then I think we have an issue
I think some of the issue is about how good they were when they left, as opposed to how good they were when we got them.
Cullen had just had a mare of a season at Bolton, Bielik had done about the same as the two Matt Smiths, Dasilva took 3 months to get up to speed. Steer, Ward, the half a dozen others we got in the Robison/Bowyer season were poor to middling.
Gallagher is the real out rider and I think we can all agree that was as much luck as judgment.
Gallagher had interest from other Championship sides in that summer and was Chelsea’s academy player of the year. The potential was always there, just no one expected him to be just as outstanding as he has shown everywhere he’s played.
Cullen had a great time at Bradford though so had the opportunity beforehand to show his talent. The move just across the river and knowing players like Lewis Page helped him settle very quickly. It was kind of a perfect.
Bielik had been exposed at Walsall and was shown to be a bit vulnerable at the beginning. He grow into it and by the end was outstanding.
—
In terms of other clubs and their loans in the league, Sunderland most probably have the biggest names but that is because they’re prepared to pay the most. Patrick Roberts from Man City would not have come cheap in the slightest.
Paying the most is the way loans in this league are now going. It’s turning into the Championship in that respect. And to be honest, unless we strike early (which is unusual with loans) we aren’t going to see too much of a better quality because Sandgaard has specifically said about bringing in 5 or 6 fairly inexpensive loanees for next season.
Regarding other clubs and their loanees further, Sheffield Wednesday have recruited really well in the loan market and quite a higher quality of loan too. Dean and Storey signed in January from Birmingham and Preston, both very capable players at Championship level, in the summer they signed Shodipo from QPR, had an excellent season for Oxford last year.
Whilst we got in Castillo, who I think will go to Netherlands second tier in the summer, and John, who hasn’t worked out by not playing for one reason or another.
Players are out there, we just have to be prepared to either strike early and show our eagerness and ambition, or we need to pay that bit extra to get that better quality signing in on loan.
Bielik got injured at Walsall so never made an appearance. He had been on loan at Birmingham in the first half of that season where he only made 10 appearances. He was inconsistent with us to start with (which Cullen wasn’t) but as you say was outstanding towards the end his loan. That form led to Derby paying big money for him.
Bielik got injured at Walsall so never made an appearance. He had been on loan at Birmingham in the first half of that season where he only made 10 appearances. He was inconsistent with us to start with (which Cullen wasn’t) but as you say was outstanding towards the end his loan. That form led to Derby paying big money for him.
Wouldnt be surprised if it was a combination of his form for us, and then his outstanding performances @ the U21 Euros with Poland - Didnt he score a couple of goals that summer? - The moment he started doing well Internationally, made me realise that we didnt stand a chance of getting him back.
Playing for Tottenham's U23's tonight, assume that's his loan spell ended early (if it ever really started)
Similar to our under 23s playing for Maidstone and our youth setup, I imagine under 23s for prem clubs can play for their parent youth squad, just usually they actually play for the loan team so don't need to
For someone to arrive on loan and play ZERO minutes, when our midfield was struggling AND had various absences through injury and illness is ridiculous. At least if John had started a match and struggled, we could honestly say to Spurs that we had tried him, but had to take him out of the firing line because he wasn't ready.
During the loan period he's made the bench 6 time, and been out of the side completely 13 times. We can't even blame having too many loan players, as Castillo has also been left out.
Good luck getting a Spurs loan player next season Jacko.
For someone to arrive on loan and play ZERO minutes, when our midfield was struggling AND had various absences through injury and illness is ridiculous. At least if John had started a match and struggled, we could honestly say to Spurs that we had tried him, but had to take him out of the firing line because he wasn't ready.
During the loan period he's made the bench 6 time, and been out of the side completely 13 times. We can't even blame having too many loan players, as Castillo has also been left out.
Good luck getting a Spurs loan player next season Jacko.
All seems a bit strange, but maybe Spurs have a player back who no longer thinks he is good as he thought.
For someone to arrive on loan and play ZERO minutes, when our midfield was struggling AND had various absences through injury and illness is ridiculous. At least if John had started a match and struggled, we could honestly say to Spurs that we had tried him, but had to take him out of the firing line because he wasn't ready.
During the loan period he's made the bench 6 time, and been out of the side completely 13 times. We can't even blame having too many loan players, as Castillo has also been left out.
Good luck getting a Spurs loan player next season Jacko.
He’s obviously not good enough. Also doesn’t help that Sandgaard allegedly won’t pay more towards some Premier League loan targets.
Can honestly say I only saw him once in an u23 game. And he was comfortably the worst starter on the pitch in a Charlton shirt. Now, like any player, one game is never enough time to form a full judgement and it was only u23’s football but I wouldn’t have picked him based on that performance. I think sometimes people forget how good our academy is and assume that because he’s come from Tottenham he’ll definitely be better.
Comments
"It will be a real test for him at League One level but we have no doubts about his quality and his potential. It will be a very, very beneficial loan for him – and for Charlton and us. He will go to a club I know well and that I recommended when I heard there was interest." were the words of CP.
https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/tottenham-loanee-deserves-to-make-charlton-athletic-appearance-before-end-of-the-season/
How the eff are they going to be anywhere near match ready if/when the opportunity crops up?
Recruitment and then using the recruits seems to be all mucking fuddled
Also have to keep in mind our relationship with Spurs and how it looks to other big clubs wanting to loan players out.
When we have had Dasilva, Cullen, Bielik, and Gallagher in recent seasons and now we have since had Levitt, Castillo, and the two Smith’s and John (who hasn’t had the chance to show us what he can do to be fair). Those players we had before are not really dropping to this level anymore. Well, that’s what I think anyway.
I also do think that Gallen really needs a bit of help because he has exhausted his contacts and we only really sign players from specific clubs. Millar was a bit of an odd one out. Most of our loans come from London clubs, understandable when they’re young, but we have to ensure we’re watching every U23 game we possibly can and if we can’t, then hire people to go and specific watch them.
Too true and have been saying this for some time. People don't quite realise the impact of this alongside some loanees getting serious injuries/overuse with us. Not a great advert. Bow played up our attraction, nobody is doing so now.
Unfortunately Jackson hasn't got the same standing in the game.
I’m out of touch with the top 6 in our division this season given how far off we are and haven’t been as closely involved this season, but if I take the season we got promoted under Bowyer, I recall Doncaster having Wilkes and Herbie Kane (I think), and thinking Wilkes especially was a decent player.
Cullen had just had a mare of a season at Bolton, Bielik had done about the same as the two Matt Smiths, Dasilva took 3 months to get up to speed. Steer, Ward, the half a dozen others we got in the Robison/Bowyer season were poor to middling.
Gallagher is the real out rider and I think we can all agree that was as much luck as judgment.
Cullen had a great time at Bradford though so had the opportunity beforehand to show his talent. The move just across the river and knowing players like Lewis Page helped him settle very quickly. It was kind of a perfect.
Bielik had been exposed at Walsall and was shown to be a bit vulnerable at the beginning. He grow into it and by the end was outstanding.
—
In terms of other clubs and their loans in the league, Sunderland most probably have the biggest names but that is because they’re prepared to pay the most. Patrick Roberts from Man City would not have come cheap in the slightest.
Paying the most is the way loans in this league are now going. It’s turning into the Championship in that respect. And to be honest, unless we strike early (which is unusual with loans) we aren’t going to see too much of a better quality because Sandgaard has specifically said about bringing in 5 or 6 fairly inexpensive loanees for next season.
Regarding other clubs and their loanees further, Sheffield Wednesday have recruited really well in the loan market and quite a higher quality of loan too. Dean and Storey signed in January from Birmingham and Preston, both very capable players at Championship level, in the summer they signed Shodipo from QPR, had an excellent season for Oxford last year.
Whilst we got in Castillo, who I think will go to Netherlands second tier in the summer, and John, who hasn’t worked out by not playing for one reason or another.
For someone to arrive on loan and play ZERO minutes, when our midfield was struggling AND had various absences through injury and illness is ridiculous. At least if John had started a match and struggled, we could honestly say to Spurs that we had tried him, but had to take him out of the firing line because he wasn't ready.
During the loan period he's made the bench 6 time, and been out of the side completely 13 times. We can't even blame having too many loan players, as Castillo has also been left out.
Good luck getting a Spurs loan player next season Jacko.